|
Post by Bob Forsythe on May 29, 2010 16:43:20 GMT -8
Previously, this had been set up as the political forum for AztecTalk, but with the demise of that site the focus will (rightfully) change to sports. I'll work with AztecWilliam on it to get everything up to speed and match the needs of the board members. Just steer clear of posting entire articles (post a key paragraph if helpful) and then post the link to the actual article and everything should be fine. Nope. Again, here is the link I posted yesterday: www.llrx.com/features/bloggersbeware.htm=Bob
|
|
|
Post by Bob Forsythe on May 29, 2010 16:44:01 GMT -8
Take my word for it - nothing you did or didn't do caused him to shut down the forum. =Bob =Bob.......NTU (Aka NUT) is saying on the MWC board that I was the cause. Is that true? No, but see my PM. =Bob
|
|
|
Post by Spud on May 29, 2010 17:12:28 GMT -8
Jesus, The RJ is going after gambling sites that make money off their stories and politically motivated sites. I wouldn't worry too much about it...99% of people here post the links anyway. Seems like a weak excuse to shut down ATalk...but he can do whatever he wants.
|
|
|
Post by monty on May 29, 2010 17:50:56 GMT -8
Funny that he's scared about being sued, but advertises for another place to go post, it is almost like stating: go get this guy sued instead. That's way too harsh. =Bob Explain to me how it's not - seems simple substitution property of equality to me.
|
|
|
Post by monty on May 29, 2010 17:56:19 GMT -8
Jesus, The RJ is going after gambling sites that make money off their stories and politically motivated sites. I wouldn't worry too much about it...99% of people here post the links anyway. Seems like a weak excuse to shut down ATalk...but he can do whatever he wants. I also believe that they sold-off their copyrights to an outside source that is pursuing it. If that becomes the trend and say the UT and others follow suit, then it becomes pressing. But in the end, if that is the reason, an annoucement couldn't be made? something like, due to these factors I have chosen to step down, I have discussed with AWill and he agrees to take the risk I feel is so active and I can't encourage you guys enough to not engage in such behavior.
|
|
|
Post by AztecWilliam on May 29, 2010 17:56:53 GMT -8
Previously, this had been set up as the political forum for AztecTalk, but with the demise of that site the focus will (rightfully) change to sports. I'll work with AztecWilliam on it to get everything up to speed and match the needs of the board members. Just steer clear of posting entire articles (post a key paragraph if helpful) and then post the link to the actual article and everything should be fine. Nope. Again, here is the link I posted yesterday: www.llrx.com/features/bloggersbeware.htm=Bob Geez, Bob, this isn't exactly rocket science. Go back to the piece you yourself linked to and re-read Myth 3, section 3. Then read what I linked to elsewhere. I think my definition of "fair use" with respect to AztecMesa is totally supported by information found in those sources. AzWm (really this is from William L. Rupp but I was to lazy to log in as admin! )
|
|
|
Post by Bob Forsythe on May 29, 2010 19:12:10 GMT -8
Geez, Bob, this isn't exactly rocket science. Go back to the piece you yourself linked to and re-read Myth 3, section 3. Then read what I linked to elsewhere. I think my definition of "fair use" with respect to AztecMesa is totally supported by information found in those sources. AzWm (really this is from William L. Rupp but I was to lazy to log in as admin! ) I did go back and reread it and I'm not as convinced as you are that quoting entire paragraphs comes under the fair use doctrine. But then again, I'm not a lawyer so you may be correct. Still, I wish we had a lawyer on here who could explain it to us. But in the meantime, I'm sticking to posting nothing more than summaries and a link because I would have sworn before I got sued that I'd done nothing wrong because I was just quoting someone. =Bob
|
|
|
Post by Bob Forsythe on May 29, 2010 19:16:04 GMT -8
That's way too harsh. =Bob Explain to me how it's not - seems simple substitution property of equality to me. Because, I assume, he was just attempting to direct people to another site where we can discuss all things Aztec. You seem to be assuming some sort of stupidity where I don't think it exists. =Bob
|
|
|
Post by Bob Forsythe on May 29, 2010 19:16:58 GMT -8
Jesus, The RJ is going after gambling sites that make money off their stories and politically motivated sites. I wouldn't worry too much about it...99% of people here post the links anyway. Seems like a weak excuse to shut down ATalk...but he can do whatever he wants. Take my word for it - being sued tends to make one very cautious. =Bob
|
|
|
Post by Bob Forsythe on May 29, 2010 19:19:44 GMT -8
Jesus, The RJ is going after gambling sites that make money off their stories and politically motivated sites. I wouldn't worry too much about it...99% of people here post the links anyway. Seems like a weak excuse to shut down ATalk...but he can do whatever he wants. I also believe that they sold-off their copyrights to an outside source that is pursuing it. If that becomes the trend and say the UT and others follow suit, then it becomes pressing. But in the end, if that is the reason, an annoucement couldn't be made? something like, due to these factors I have chosen to step down, I have discussed with AWill and he agrees to take the risk I feel is so active and I can't encourage you guys enough to not engage in such behavior. Ask if you want. I'm not trying to defend his decision, just offer what he told me was the reason for it. I do find it interesting that fishwraps are outsourcing their copyrights. That's going to make things on in Net very interesting. =Bob
|
|
|
Post by The Aztec Panther on May 29, 2010 20:10:28 GMT -8
Bob's probably right in that paraphrasing what the gist of the story is and posting a link is a safer bet. It certainly isn't going to hurt, and could potentially avoid a headache later on.
My bet, though, is that they'd simply issue a cease and desist order and threaten a lawsuit if that order were not obeyed.
But I'll go with the idea of condensing the main point and posting the link. It's just a good idea.
|
|
|
Post by monty on May 29, 2010 20:41:01 GMT -8
It points to the problem of the vagary a common law system in that we have to wonder if doing the exact same thing that we do in every other single form of x applies to a new form of x (x'). I think we all can assume that 2500+ years of citing, paraphrasing and commenting on - with proper citation - will rule the day, but no one knows until someone brings it before the magistrate and before a higher person rules on that, and before lateral people rule on that, ad infinitum.
Fair use doctrine, as you cite and as we know, tells us that using sources for criticism should be allowed, but, in the end, in our system, no one will ever really know as it is mutable and capricious.
|
|
|
Post by Spud on May 29, 2010 22:14:20 GMT -8
Jesus, The RJ is going after gambling sites that make money off their stories and politically motivated sites. I wouldn't worry too much about it...99% of people here post the links anyway. Seems like a weak excuse to shut down ATalk...but he can do whatever he wants. Take my word for it - being sued tends to make one very cautious. =Bob Can't live your life hiding in the shadows...RJ wasn't going to go after ATalk...no biggy. Once again we see what happens when someone tries to mod a board all by themselves. That's why the most successful boards have multiple mods that can be trusted to 1) Review content to insure these copy-write issues don't happen...and 2) so you don't have to put up with 99% of the bull$#!+. It's a pretty simple formula.
|
|
|
Post by La Mesa Aztec on May 30, 2010 7:33:41 GMT -8
I'm still not sure why someone else couldn't just take over the old Proboards board last year when the last mod got burned out.
|
|
|
Post by aztecwin on May 30, 2010 8:53:25 GMT -8
I'm still not sure why someone else couldn't just take over the old Proboards board last year when the last mod got burned out. This is pro boards and it is already better than before. If there is some aspect of that other board that you like, ask William or Erik. If it makes sense they will probably do it.
|
|
|
Post by William L. Rupp on May 30, 2010 9:47:40 GMT -8
I quite agree that caution is advised in the case of referring to copyrighted material. This is an area about which, for a couple of reasons, I know a little (emphasis on little). I am a published author (which may not be that big a deal in and of itself) and have therefore been trying to keep up on this topic for many years. In addition, I publish two small magazines, an activity which encourages one to be knowledgeable for the very reasons that Bob cites. For purposes of AztecMesa, let's agree on this. 1.) Under no circumstances may anyone post an entire copyrighted article or column without explicit permission from the copyright holder. Proof of that permission should be shared with the administrator. 2.) If a piece (article, column, news story, etc.) is freely available on the Internet, the poster may post the URL of the source of said piece. Please name the author and the source in your post. This is a new wrinkle; in the past, I personally have just posted my intro to the topic and then the URL. In some cases I mentioned the name of the author, in others not. Rarely have I included the source, figuring that by using the URL the reader will see who wrote the piece and whence it originated. Since some of you have expressed concern in this regard, let's go the extra mile just to be on the safe side. As an example, here is my latest thread (dealing with the Korean crisis): www.aztecmesa.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=ip&thread=7313.) You are perfectly safe in summarizing the main points of a copyrighted work. This may be the only way to go if you want to share something you have read that is not available on the Internet. 4.) In the matter of using copyrighted material, we should be aware of the "fair use doctrine." The fair use doctrine allows one to quote from a copyrighted work in certain cases. The definition of fair use is not as cut and dried as one might wish. In any event, we are talking about quoting only short passages from a work. If the work is a 100,000 word novel, it is okay to quote perhaps a few hundred words from random parts of that novel. However, if the work is only 900 words long, quoting 600 would probably not be considered fair use. Here is an explanation of fair use: www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.htmlOne particularly important part of that explanation is this (emphasis mine). . . . . .use of copyrighted material should be avoided unless the doctrine of fair use would clearly apply to the situation.In short, it is permissible to quote from a copyrighted work, but such "fair use" must not violate certain rules. What copyright holders are particularly worried about is losing value of their works because they have been copied and distributed without any compensation or permission. With that in mind, I feel confident that it's okay to quote a few sentences from a work, perhaps even a paragraph or two, without getting anyone in an uproar. Frankly, this should be an issue only for weird types such as myself who bloviate on and on in the political realm. Or maybe it's just an issue for me only ! I look for articles that (in my opinion, anyway) shed light on a particular political issue. Sometimes, in addition to stating the context of the issue, I will quote a sentence or two from the linked work that seem particularly interesting. There is really no reason to do more than that since I include a URL that will allow the reader to take a look at the whole piece. Well, it seems that I have been doing some serious bloviating in this very post! Okay, here is another discussion of fair use that you may want to explore. . . en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#Amount_and_substantialityIn conclusion, I don't think we will have any problems with all this if we just use good judgment and follow the simple rules. WLR
|
|
|
Post by Spud on Jun 5, 2010 5:48:52 GMT -8
Just an observation, but if Zip is so worried about legal repercussions for copyright infringements, why has he left all the posts up on ATalk? Seems to me you'd want to clear out all the posts.
|
|