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Post by johneaztec on Aug 15, 2021 20:05:33 GMT -8
Just stop. You're making yourself look worse by the minute. Not my concern, really. You're one of the more reasonable posters here, and I'm a fan. But this isn't the argument to choose. I'm at a loss for what would compel anyone to make a defense on this subject. There's no logical or statistical argument that's genuine. The pure and simple matter is that the Padres would be a much better team with Cronenworth at first, Kim at shortstop and Tatis...wherever he really wants to play, I guess. That's what I care about. For the folks who seem to think this is just an anti-Hosmer diatribe, it isn't. I have no vendetta or agenda against a player...and never will. Most importantly, they won! Says the one who openly admits that he doesn't like Hosmer and then tries to smooth it over by saying that it doesn't affect how he observes him. Get real.
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Post by johneaztec on Aug 15, 2021 20:06:47 GMT -8
Just stop. You're making yourself look worse by the minute. Not my concern, really. You're one of the more reasonable posters here, and I'm a fan. But this isn't the argument to choose. I'm at a loss for what would compel anyone to make a defense on this subject. There's no logical or statistical argument that's genuine. The pure and simple matter is that the Padres would be a much better team with Cronenworth at first, Kim at shortstop and Tatis...wherever he really wants to play, I guess. That's what I care about. For the folks who seem to think this is just an anti-Hosmer diatribe, it isn't. I have no vendetta or agenda against a player...and never will. Most importantly, they won! Hosmer's done very well since July. It's how you end that counts. Remember?
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 15, 2021 20:11:05 GMT -8
Not my concern, really. You're one of the more reasonable posters here, and I'm a fan. But this isn't the argument to choose. I'm at a loss for what would compel anyone to make a defense on this subject. There's no logical or statistical argument that's genuine. The pure and simple matter is that the Padres would be a much better team with Cronenworth at first, Kim at shortstop and Tatis...wherever he really wants to play, I guess. That's what I care about. For the folks who seem to think this is just an anti-Hosmer diatribe, it isn't. I have no vendetta or agenda against a player...and never will. Most importantly, they won! Says the one who openly admits that he doesn't like Hosmer and then tries to smooth it over by saying that it doesn't affect how he observes him. Get real. It doesn't. I've said this repeatedly: You can not like a player and still view them through an objective lens. This isn't kindergarten. You keep trying to attack me the person, which is fine, but attack the argument from a statistical perspective. I'd like to see what you see, but so far, all I've seen is "He's clutch" and other non-quantifiable fodder.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 15, 2021 20:13:14 GMT -8
Not my concern, really. You're one of the more reasonable posters here, and I'm a fan. But this isn't the argument to choose. I'm at a loss for what would compel anyone to make a defense on this subject. There's no logical or statistical argument that's genuine. The pure and simple matter is that the Padres would be a much better team with Cronenworth at first, Kim at shortstop and Tatis...wherever he really wants to play, I guess. That's what I care about. For the folks who seem to think this is just an anti-Hosmer diatribe, it isn't. I have no vendetta or agenda against a player...and never will. Most importantly, they won! Hosmer's dine very well since July. since July. It's how you end that counts. Remember? He's got a nice slash line, yes. Doing "very well" is not accurate, though. He's still a negative offensive player for the season, not from my view, but from a statistical view. He's holding at a 104 wRC+, which means he's 4% above the baseline average. The -0.2 WAR is hard to get around, especially because he provides no value defensively. He's hitting better, but it's nowhere near good enough without any real power, especially for a team starving for slugging, Fernando aside.
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Post by johneaztec on Aug 15, 2021 20:23:09 GMT -8
Says the one who openly admits that he doesn't like Hosmer and then tries to smooth it over by saying that it doesn't affect how he observes him. Get real. It doesn't. I've said this repeatedly: You can not like a player and still view them through an objective lens. This isn't kindergarten. You keep trying to attack me the person, which is fine, but attack the argument from a statistical perspective. I'd like to see what you see, but so far, all I've seen is "He's clutch" and other non-quantifiable fodder. It's obvious Ryan and by the way, you attack me quite a bit, so don't go there. It obvious because you haven't, and won't give him any credit while he's doing well. If you have, it's because you were called out on it, and threw him a bone. You don't have to be Inspector Clouseau to figure that one out.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 15, 2021 21:13:39 GMT -8
It doesn't. I've said this repeatedly: You can not like a player and still view them through an objective lens. This isn't kindergarten. You keep trying to attack me the person, which is fine, but attack the argument from a statistical perspective. I'd like to see what you see, but so far, all I've seen is "He's clutch" and other non-quantifiable fodder. It's obvious Ryan and by the way, you attack me quite a bit, so don't go there. It obvious because you haven't, and won't give him any credit while he's doing well. If you have, it's because you were called out on it, and threw him a bone. You don't have to be Inspector Clouseau to figure that one out. Because doing "well" is subjective to the point where it requires context. It requires something that isn't arbitrary. Fernando Tatis Jr. is doing well. Manny Machado is doing well. Jake Cronenworth is doing well. You can argue anyone is really doing well if it's not framed with anything meaningful. I JUST gave him credit, he's hitting *better* than he has been. But better, relative to what? Since July 1st, he's hitting .336. Amazing, on the surface. But let's dig deeper....He has four homers and 18 RBI since July 1st. He has 39 hits, of which 28 are singles. And the BABIP, which illustrates a total picture here, is .393. That's a hundred points above league average for a player with no real speed on the basepaths. So, we are back to the reality of "better." I don't know if you notice, but I don't respond to "callouts" - This isn't a fight, it's not WWE. We're not here to wrassle.....You can say he's doing "well", but the overall numbers say otherwise. And that's where I'm at. You don't compile a negative WAR by doing "well." Invaliding a person's argument without any substance behind it isn't meaningful contradiction, either, FWIW. You can scream into the wind that I'm biased (I'm not, for the record) and that I hate him (I do not), but it doesn't erase the numbers. The numbers are real. Time to move forward (again) from this.
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Post by johneaztec on Aug 15, 2021 21:38:58 GMT -8
Just stop. You're making yourself look worse by the minute. Not my concern, really. You're one of the more reasonable posters here, and I'm a fan. But this isn't the argument to choose. I'm at a loss for what would compel anyone to make a defense on this subject. There's no logical or statistical argument that's genuine. The pure and simple matter is that the Padres would be a much better team with Cronenworth at first, Kim at shortstop and Tatis...wherever he really wants to play, I guess. That's what I care about. For the folks who seem to think this is just an anti-Hosmer diatribe, it isn't. I have no vendetta or agenda against a player...and never will. Most importantly, they won! Ryan, as you can see here, you can look bad to the good AND the bad posters. At least you don't discriminate.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2021 7:03:38 GMT -8
I think Ryan has posted genuine statistics on why he doesn't see much value in regards to Hosmer. It's been well discussed, at this point.
You'd think at this point it would just be an agree to disagree scenario.
Personally, I enjoy Ryan's statistical analysis and in depth look at players, even if I don't always agree with him. His posts make this sub forum a more interesting read.
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Post by johneaztec on Aug 16, 2021 8:00:34 GMT -8
I think Ryan has posted genuine statistics on why he doesn't see much value in regards to Hosmer. It's been well discussed, at this point. You'd think at this point it would just be an agree to disagree scenario. Personally, I enjoy Ryan's statistical analysis and in depth look at players, even if I don't always agree with him. His posts make this sub forum a more interesting read. Sure, I enjoy the stats too, but when there's zero praise for how well he's done since June, unless you pin him down and only then he'll give him a half hearted take, and only bashing, then that's where he gets questioned about his bias since he doesn't like him personally. I'm over it. Let's hope Hosmer helps the Pads get to the playoffs and beyond.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 16, 2021 9:41:42 GMT -8
I think Ryan has posted genuine statistics on why he doesn't see much value in regards to Hosmer. It's been well discussed, at this point. You'd think at this point it would just be an agree to disagree scenario. Personally, I enjoy Ryan's statistical analysis and in depth look at players, even if I don't always agree with him. His posts make this sub forum a more interesting read. Appreciate it. Yes, I agree to disagree, but then I see these constant "Oh what a great day by Hosmer, he's doing WELL" and I feel obligated to respond because the numbers show an empty batting average with a ton of singles, virtually no power and no run production, to go along with the worst defensive metrics at the position.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 16, 2021 9:47:17 GMT -8
I think Ryan has posted genuine statistics on why he doesn't see much value in regards to Hosmer. It's been well discussed, at this point. You'd think at this point it would just be an agree to disagree scenario. Personally, I enjoy Ryan's statistical analysis and in depth look at players, even if I don't always agree with him. His posts make this sub forum a more interesting read. Sure, I enjoy the stats too, but when there's zero praise for how well he's done since June, unless you pin him down and only then he'll give him a half hearted take, and only bashing, then that's where he gets questioned about his bias since he doesn't like him personally. I'm over it. Let's hope Hosmer helps the Pads get to the playoffs and beyond. Clearly you're not over it since you keep repeating yourself. I'm not required to praise anyone, am I? Why is this a thing here? Here we are again with this bizarre fan police argument like I'm supposed to be in lockstep with the way *you* cheer. I don't give half-hearted takes, I provide statistics and context for vague, abstract arguments that you provide. You don't look beyond surface numbers, I do. That's important. That's why it's vital to not just go with a narrative to get sucked into. That's why I try to frame everything with a consistent metric that actually means something, to provide actual reasoning behind my statements. There's no bias here. I'm able to separate views of players on and off the field.
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Post by azson on Aug 16, 2021 10:06:48 GMT -8
“Worst players in baseball”? Boy now, that’s reach even for you!! Also, it's weird that this is the one sentence you took from an entire paragraph discussing Kevin Acee. Seems...odd. Another thing on Acee: He's consistently wrong with what he reports, or extremely late with information frequently. Kind of a taboo thing in the industry. The biggest red flag to me a while back is that he's never brought on to the Padres' 97.3 flagship station for an interview.
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Post by azson on Aug 16, 2021 10:14:28 GMT -8
Not my concern, really. You're one of the more reasonable posters here, and I'm a fan. But this isn't the argument to choose. I'm at a loss for what would compel anyone to make a defense on this subject. There's no logical or statistical argument that's genuine. The pure and simple matter is that the Padres would be a much better team with Cronenworth at first, Kim at shortstop and Tatis...wherever he really wants to play, I guess. That's what I care about. For the folks who seem to think this is just an anti-Hosmer diatribe, it isn't. I have no vendetta or agenda against a player...and never will. Most importantly, they won! Ryan, as you can see here, you can look bad to the good AND the bad posters. At least you don't discriminate. Not sure if I'm viewed in the bad or good poster category, but I agree with Ryan. He's backed up why he doesn't like Hosmer with statistics - it's you and others that spend countless posts trying to convince us that it's personal (it's not).
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 16, 2021 10:25:19 GMT -8
Also, it's weird that this is the one sentence you took from an entire paragraph discussing Kevin Acee. Seems...odd. Another thing on Acee: He's consistently wrong with what he reports, or extremely late with information frequently. Kind of a taboo thing in the industry. The biggest red flag to me a while back is that he's never brought on to the Padres' 97.3 flagship station for an interview. He's the 1360 "Padres insider" so that's why he doesn't appear on 97.3.
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Post by johneaztec on Aug 16, 2021 10:36:35 GMT -8
Ryan, as you can see here, you can look bad to the good AND the bad posters. At least you don't discriminate. Not sure if I'm viewed in the bad or good poster category, but I agree with Ryan. He's backed up why he doesn't like Hosmer with statistics - it's you and others that spend countless posts trying to convince us that it's personal (it's not). Ok, but when a guy's turning it around and has been doing very well since July, and all he can come up with is only how he's doing overall for the whole year without mentioning how well he's doing currently, and completely diminishes anything that he's done well in this streak, it raises a red flag about the fact that he self admittedly doesn't like him. Of course some people are going to question that bias approach.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 16, 2021 11:18:51 GMT -8
Not sure if I'm viewed in the bad or good poster category, but I agree with Ryan. He's backed up why he doesn't like Hosmer with statistics - it's you and others that spend countless posts trying to convince us that it's personal (it's not). Ok, but when a guy's turning it around and has been doing very well since July, and all he can come up with is only how he's doing overall for the whole year without mentioning how well he's doing currently, and completely diminishes anything that he's done well in this streak, it raises a red flag about the fact that he self admittedly doesn't like him. Of course some people are going to question that bias approach. No, John. Not the way it works. I've said now at least three times how he's doing "better since June" which you repeatedly get stuck on. It's impossible *not* to be better since June because it was Hosmer's worst month as a professional. Listen to yourself here: You're trying to make an argument for recency bias. That's a complete fallacy. I've provided the actual numbers, more than once now. The best you can do is talk in wandering generalities about "better" and the "streak" and "turning it around"...all of which are essentially meaningless because they provide no frame of reference. Why should we put more weight into six weeks than we do an entire season, or moreover, multiple seasons? That's not how statistics work.
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Post by sdsuball on Aug 16, 2021 11:25:53 GMT -8
Maybe this argument belongs on the Hosmer thread. Or it should just be dropped, since the conversation isn't going anywhere.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 16, 2021 11:33:32 GMT -8
On Acee, this is certainly causing a stir.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2021 11:41:45 GMT -8
Jake Arrieta has been absolutely dreadful for awhile now. LOL.
I'd rather have signed Bartolo Colon from the Mexican league.
But....I am hoping he can at least pitch "decent" and keep the Padres in games. Not counting on it though.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 16, 2021 11:53:04 GMT -8
Jake Arrieta has been absolutely dreadful for awhile now. LOL. I'd rather have signed Bartolo Colon from the Mexican league. But....I am hoping he can at least pitch "decent" and keep the Padres in games. Not counting on it though. Hopefully it's just for a start or two. They had to be pretty desperate given the optics of why Arrieta was cut.
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