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Post by aardvark on Jan 13, 2020 11:40:18 GMT -8
Houston Astros GM Jeff Luhnow and manager AJ Hinch suspended immediately through the 2020 season.
The Astros also lose their 1st and 2nd round draft picks in 2020 and 2021, and are fined $5 million.
Former Asst GM Brandon Taubman is also suspended through the 2020 season, and can apply for reinstatement after the end of the 2020 season (currently unemployed after being fired by the Astros for another matter).
Still curious to see if anything happens to Alex Cora.
Using modern technology to steal signs is bad.
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Post by aardvark on Jan 13, 2020 12:10:30 GMT -8
UPDATE: Both Luhnow and Hinch were fired today by the owner of the Astros, Jim Crane. A search is on for a new manager and GM.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 12:43:18 GMT -8
Love it. Cora is going to get nailed too.
Dodgers got f'ing screwed. Can't help but look at Yu Darvishs first inning, the times Kanley just got teed off on , etc. and wonder how much this sign stealing impacted that.
Disgusting.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 12:46:18 GMT -8
Houston Astros GM Jeff Luhnow and manager AJ Hinch suspended immediately through the 2020 season. The Astros also lose their 1st and 2nd round draft picks in 2020 and 2021, and are fined $5 million. Former Asst GM Brandon Taubman is also suspended through the 2020 season, and can apply for reinstatement after the end of the 2020 season (currently unemployed after being fired by the Astros for another matter). Still curious to see if anything happens to Alex Cora. Using modern technology to steal signs is bad. Cora is definitely getting his as well. www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28476780/astros-jeff-luhnow-aj-hinch-fired-sign-stealing"Boston Red Sox manager Alex Cora, who was implicated in the schemes, was not disciplined but is expected to receive a similarly harsh penalty upon the completion of an investigation into illicit use of a video replay room by the 2018 Red Sox. Cora was the Astros' bench coach during the 2017 season. EDITOR'S PICKS MLB hits Astros with huge penalties, Houston fires Hinch, Luhnow: Answering all the questions Report: Red Sox used replay room to steal signs While the scheme to steal signs and relay them to batters by banging on a garbage can was "player-driven," MLB commissioner Rob Manfred wrote in a nine-page summary of the investigation, no players were disciplined -- including New York Mets manager Carlos Beltran, who played for the 2017 Astros and was implicated by Manfred as one of the players involved in decoding signs."
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Post by aztecmusician on Jan 13, 2020 16:22:10 GMT -8
A significant revelation for MLB. The Astros run of success is now tainted and the Red Sox are in the league’s crosshairs.
The teams who were being cheated aren’t stupid BTW. Banging the garbage can repeatedly during the high smoke eventually gets picked up on by the victimized pitcher/catcher and bench.
Hmmmm, maybe EVERY team has been doing this. This would certainly explain the unprecedented number of home runs, after all there are millions of dollars on the table. Then again, I have to give the Padres and most of the other teams the benefit of the doubt.....although it is certainly an easy enough scheme to implement.
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Post by aztecmusician on Jan 14, 2020 16:35:15 GMT -8
Cora also fired. MLB not messing around with this.
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 14, 2020 21:16:14 GMT -8
Cora also fired. MLB not messing around with this. Baseball isn't doing the firing. The organizations are. The Red Sox issuing their statement of "mutually parting ways" is such a bogus position to take with a two-time cheater like Cora.
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Post by aztecmusician on Jan 15, 2020 0:11:00 GMT -8
Cora also fired. MLB not messing around with this. Baseball isn't doing the firing. The organizations are. The Red Sox issuing their statement of "mutually parting ways" is such a bogus position to take with a two-time cheater like Cora. Yeeesh! The organizations are a part of MLB. These clubs are obviously self policing because they are concerned the commissioner might have more drastic measures in mind, such as stripping titles in addition to losing draft picks. The point is MLB is taking this seriously and there will probably be further inquiries and possibly additional penalties.
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 15, 2020 8:30:38 GMT -8
Baseball isn't doing the firing. The organizations are. The Red Sox issuing their statement of "mutually parting ways" is such a bogus position to take with a two-time cheater like Cora. Yeeesh! The organizations are a part of MLB. These clubs are obviously self policing because they are concerned the commissioner might have more drastic measures in mind, such as stripping titles in addition to losing draft picks. The point is MLB is taking this seriously and there will probably be further inquiries and possibly additional penalties. Cora is getting hammered, regardless of whether Boston fired him or not. Organizations are trying to save face and move forward. Wouldn't shock me if Cora got a lifetime ban.
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Post by aardvark on Jan 15, 2020 8:32:31 GMT -8
Baseball isn't doing the firing. The organizations are. The Red Sox issuing their statement of "mutually parting ways" is such a bogus position to take with a two-time cheater like Cora. Yeeesh! The organizations are a part of MLB. These clubs are obviously self policing because they are concerned the commissioner might have more drastic measures in mind, such as stripping titles in addition to losing draft picks. The point is MLB is taking this seriously and there will probably be further inquiries and possibly additional penalties. If anything, the Red Sox tried to get out in front of the investigation of their organization my MLB to possibly limit the penalties that will be imposed. MLB could have easily requested that the managers be terminated and not just suspended, but they didn't do that. They also, at the end the end of the Houston investigation, could have stripped the Astros of the World Series title, but they didn't do that either. It's very doubtful that MLB's punishment of the Red Sox will be any more severe than the punishment the Astros received.
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Post by aardvark on Jan 15, 2020 8:34:39 GMT -8
Yeeesh! The organizations are a part of MLB. These clubs are obviously self policing because they are concerned the commissioner might have more drastic measures in mind, such as stripping titles in addition to losing draft picks. The point is MLB is taking this seriously and there will probably be further inquiries and possibly additional penalties. Cora is getting hammered, regardless of whether Boston fired him or not. Organizations are trying to save face and move forward. Wouldn't shock me if Cora got a lifetime ban. Maybe not an "official" lifetime ban, but I would think that teams will steer clear of Cora.
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 15, 2020 8:37:48 GMT -8
Cora is getting hammered, regardless of whether Boston fired him or not. Organizations are trying to save face and move forward. Wouldn't shock me if Cora got a lifetime ban. Maybe not an "official" lifetime ban, but I would think that teams will steer clear of Cora. I definitely think it's possible because he architected the entire scheme in Houston, then did it again in Boston after the commissioner's office released the memo stating the use of technology was against the CBA and illegal. He should be suspended for multiple seasons at a minimum.
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Post by aardvark on Jan 15, 2020 8:49:58 GMT -8
Maybe not an "official" lifetime ban, but I would think that teams will steer clear of Cora. I definitely think it's possible because he architected the entire scheme in Houston, then did it again in Boston after the commissioner's office released the memo stating the use of technology was against the CBA and illegal. He should be suspended for multiple seasons at a minimum. I agree with you that it's possible, but just not likely, IMO. I am curious to see what penalties the Red Sox will receive.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 9:21:38 GMT -8
Cora is definitely getting it worse than Hinch. Should be interesting to see.
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Post by aztecmusician on Jan 15, 2020 10:46:41 GMT -8
Tim Flannery says every team is constantly trying to steal signs, especially from the 3rd Base Coach, it’s part of the game within the game. Videos from the stands of the 3rd Base Coach giving signs are analyzed, leading to teams constantly updating and changing their sign sequences. Skin to skin...the belt is the key...yes I come from a baseball playing family.
Anyway, Flan’s take is that this is another attempt to dumb down the great game, they might as well suspend everyone, because pretty much every team does it.
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Post by survalli on Jan 15, 2020 11:46:35 GMT -8
Tim Flannery says every team is constantly trying to steal signs, especially from the 3rd Base Coach, it’s part of the game within the game. Videos from the stands of the 3rd Base Coach giving signs are analyzed, leading to teams constantly updating and changing their sign sequences. Skin to skin...the belt is the key...yes I come from a baseball playing family. Anyway, Flan’s take is that this is another attempt to dumb down the great game, they might as well suspend everyone, because pretty much every team does it. Yes every team does it, its just some teams have refined it to the point where they are heads and shoulders of other teams who do the same, and that creates an unfair advantage. i think the cheating goes far beyond what has been admitted to. Astro's should vacate their WS.
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Post by survalli on Jan 15, 2020 11:48:08 GMT -8
Love it. Cora is going to get nailed too. Dodgers got f'ing screwed. Can't help but look at Yu Darvishs first inning, the times Kanley just got teed off on , etc. and wonder how much this sign stealing impacted that. Disgusting. Dodgers are one of the worst offenders in the NL!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 11:53:50 GMT -8
Tim Flannery says every team is constantly trying to steal signs, especially from the 3rd Base Coach, it’s part of the game within the game. Videos from the stands of the 3rd Base Coach giving signs are analyzed, leading to teams constantly updating and changing their sign sequences. Skin to skin...the belt is the key...yes I come from a baseball playing family. Anyway, Flan’s take is that this is another attempt to dumb down the great game, they might as well suspend everyone, because pretty much every team does it. I would say that the old school, runner on second trying to peer in (in which cases the pitcher & C usually had a different "indicator" with a man on 2nd) is radically different from an intricate system involving camera feeds from centerfield, replay monitors, apple watches, etc. Particularly after the MLB memo went out in 2017. Sort of like the NFL's "Spygate" scandal. Nothing wrong with your advance scouts watching and discussing the opposing coaches signals - but filming them is and has been illegal. Which is why the Patriots got nailed. Flan's take is old school, typical for him. I disagree with him. Also, I highly doubt "pretty much every team" was stealing/cheating at THIS flagrant of a level. Part of how stupid HOU & BOS guilty parties were, is this sort of scheme was so easy to expose. All it took, and all it did take, was a couple of former players that left the franchise, particularly if it were against their will. That created the whistle blowers who blabbed to their favorite media scribe. If so many MLB teams were doing this, it would have a domino effect and have more persons revealed. Yes of course all teams try to steal signs the old school way, no question. Big difference though in how far you're willing to go.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 17:26:37 GMT -8
Tim Flannery says every team is constantly trying to steal signs, especially from the 3rd Base Coach, it’s part of the game within the game. Videos from the stands of the 3rd Base Coach giving signs are analyzed, leading to teams constantly updating and changing their sign sequences. Skin to skin...the belt is the key...yes I come from a baseball playing family. Anyway, Flan’s take is that this is another attempt to dumb down the great game, they might as well suspend everyone, because pretty much every team does it. I have played enough baseball to know this absolutely happens. Get on second, get a sign, then lean a little bit in one direction. Get caught, get beaned. The difference with what's going on today is the use of video equipment and cameras. That's complete BS!! From everything I have read, I would like to know why the players involved seem to be protected? It's been revealed that they are really the culprits behind the whole thing. Not a Dodgers fan, but they got screwed. Twice!!
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Post by azman on Jan 15, 2020 18:06:27 GMT -8
Tim Flannery says every team is constantly trying to steal signs, especially from the 3rd Base Coach, it’s part of the game within the game. Videos from the stands of the 3rd Base Coach giving signs are analyzed, leading to teams constantly updating and changing their sign sequences. Skin to skin...the belt is the key...yes I come from a baseball playing family. Anyway, Flan’s take is that this is another attempt to dumb down the great game, they might as well suspend everyone, because pretty much every team does it. I have played enough baseball to know this absolutely happens. Get on second, get a sign, then lean a little bit in one direction. Get caught, get beaned. The difference with what's going on today is the use of video equipment and cameras. That's complete BS!! From everything I have read, I would like to know why the players involved seem to be protected? It's been revealed that they are really the culprits behind the whole thing. Not a Dodgers fan, but they got screwed. Twice!! It's the difference between gamesmanship and cheating. Trying to steal signs at second or watching a pitcher for tipping his pitches is one thing, using a video camera to zoom in on the catchers fingers and then bang on a trash can to indicate specific pitches to batter who is up to bat is completely above and beyond. I hope Cora gets the Pete Rose treatment.
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