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Post by couldashoulda on May 15, 2019 14:12:48 GMT -8
Can someone please elaborate? Why? skills, attitude, chemistry, past history, drugs, legal, what? How does a local SD kid sniffing around USD and UCSB doesn't want to be an AZTEC or vice-versa? I think you answered your own question - his first two visits are probably very inductive of the types of programs that are interested him, I’m guessing this board (me included) have misread his talent compared to how division 1 coaches view it. Uh, USD and UCSB are Div. 1 and USD beat us this year by 12 points in our house.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2019 14:59:57 GMT -8
They need to do something. How long are they going to roll with 12 players on scholarship? 3 years is too damn long. If that happens, the Aztecs will be missing a fourth year player in 2020. That is unacceptable. Do we play a 12 man rotation? If they don't feel that Norris or anyone else out there is worthy of a scholarship right now then why be desperate and sign one? This again. What exactly makes the Aztecs unique in not needing to use their scholarships? Are they pulling in the best MW recruiting classes despite the open spots? Are they dominating the MW with 12 dudes? Is our team filled with all conference players? Is the bench overflowing with legitimate starting quality talent? Is it a positive sign that year after year the Aztecs can’t find enough players of sufficient talent to fill the roster? You’ve created a false binary: sign a bad player or leave an open roster spot. There’s another option, go out and sign a quality athlete. This was a much better argument when the Aztecs were putting together at-large bid resumes year after year and our players and recruiting classes were regularly well ranked in conference. For example, had the Aztecs signed Zylan, Malik, and Trey while leaving the final scholarship open this take would be justified. This would be especially true if leaving schollies open hadn’t become a pattern. Feagin is easily our best addition as he’s a top 20 grad transfer, not a top 20 transfer mind you, but clearly a good get. Our lone HS recruit is listed at 345 in the national rankings by 247 sports. Why has it proven so difficult for the Aztecs to add a HS player in the 100-150 range or an additional transfer with a proven track record to this recruiting class? Pulliam is the 38th ranked JC player in the country. Players ranked within ten spots above and 10 below this player are committed to powerhouse programs like Louisiana Tech, Robert Morris, Arkansas Little Rock, and Cal State Bakersfield. Wetzell looks like a classic final roster spot guy as an unranked GT who averaged only 5.9 points and 3.8 rebounds in 18 1/2 minutes as a RS junior on a dreadful Vandy team. Despite a huge hole at the position and a virtual guarantee of major minutes, this is the best that Dutcher and company could come up with to address a clear need in the front court? This isn’t exactly a banner recruiting class. I’m not saying that any of these players are incapable of making a positive impact. I’m not writing any of them off before they’ve even stepped on to Fisher Court. But the coaches have known for years that these four scholarships were going to be vacant and this group isn’t creating any buzz within the conference. Players like these can and do become good college basketball players but if you keep putting together classes like this it will eventually catch up to you. It’s mid-May and the questions are “who’s going to play the four?” and “what kind of production are we going to get from this position?” not “How are we going to get minutes for this over-abundance of depth and talent?”
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Post by Den60 on May 15, 2019 15:15:25 GMT -8
Do we play a 12 man rotation? If they don't feel that Norris or anyone else out there is worthy of a scholarship right now then why be desperate and sign one? This again. What exactly makes the Aztecs unique in not needing to use their scholarships? Are they pulling in the best MW recruiting classes while leaving slots open for years? Are they dominating the MW with 12 dudes? Is our team filled with all conference players? Is the bench overflowing with legitimate starting quality talent? Is it a positive sign that year after year the Aztecs can’t find enough players of sufficient talent to fill the roster? You’ve created a false binary: sign a bad player or leave an open roster spot. There’s another option, go out and sign a quality player. This was a much better argument when the Aztecs were putting together at-large bid resumes year after year and our players and recruiting classes were regularly well ranked in conference. For example, had the Aztecs signed Zylan, Malik, and Trey while leaving the final scholarship open this tale makes a lot more sense. Feagin is easily our best addition as he’s a top 20 grad transfer, not a top 20 transfer mind you, but clearly a good get. Our lone HS recruit is listed at 345 in the national rankings by 247 sports. Why has it proven so difficult for the Aztecs to add a HS player in the 100-150 range or an additional transfer with a proven track record to this recruiting class? Pulliam is the 38th ranked JC player in the country. Players ranked within ten spots above and 10 below this player are committed powerhouse programs like Louisiana Tech, Robert Morris, Arkansas Little Rock, and Cal State Bakersfield. Wetzell looks like a classic final roster spot guy as an unranked GT who averaged only 5.9 points and 3.8 rebounds in 18 1/2 minutes as a RS junior on a dreadful Vandy team. Despite a huge hole at the position and a virtual guarantee of major minutes, this is the best that Dutcher and company could come up with to address a clear need in the front court? This isn’t exactly a banner recruiting class. I’m not saying that any of these players are incapable of making a positive impact. I’m not writing any of them off before they’ve even stepped on to Fisher Court. But the coaches have known for years that these four scholarships were going to be vacant and this group isn’t creating any buzz within the conference. Players like these can and do become good college basketball players but if you keep putting together classes like this it will eventually catch up to you. It’s mid-May and the questions are “who’s going to play the four?” and “what kind of production are we going to get from this position?” not “How are we going to get minutes for this over-abundance of depth and talent?” You do realize that all I said is that if there isn't anyone out there currently worthy of a scholarship then why fill it just to fill it? I wanted both Sueing and Baker. We lost them both to Ohio State and Arizona, not exactly schools we have an history of out recruiting. There was really no reason to write an expose on the issue.
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Post by Den60 on May 15, 2019 15:20:27 GMT -8
I think you answered your own question - his first two visits are probably very inductive of the types of programs that are interested him, I’m guessing this board (me included) have misread his talent compared to how division 1 coaches view it. Uh, USD and UCSB are Div. 1 and USD beat us this year by 12 points in our house. Yes, but look at our record with them over the years. They fielded a veteran team. We were young and N Mensah was a much better player at the end of the year than he was in the beginning. Same with Arop. Our BB program is still much, much better than USD.
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Post by partytecs on May 15, 2019 15:26:38 GMT -8
Do we play a 12 man rotation? If they don't feel that Norris or anyone else out there is worthy of a scholarship right now then why be desperate and sign one? This again. What exactly makes the Aztecs unique in not needing to use their scholarships? Are they pulling in the best MW recruiting classes while leaving slots open for years? Are they dominating the MW with 12 dudes? Is our team filled with all conference players? Is the bench overflowing with legitimate starting quality talent? Is it a positive sign that year after year the Aztecs can’t find enough players of sufficient talent to fill the roster? You’ve created a false binary: sign a bad player or leave an open roster spot. There’s another option, go out and sign a quality player. This was a much better argument when the Aztecs were putting together at-large bid resumes year after year and our players and recruiting classes were regularly well ranked in conference. For example, had the Aztecs signed Zylan, Malik, and Trey while leaving the final scholarship open this take would be justified. This would be especially true if leaving schollies open hadn’t become a pattern. Feagin is easily our best addition as he’s a top 20 grad transfer, not a top 20 transfer mind you, but clearly a good get. Our lone HS recruit is listed at 345 in the national rankings by 247 sports. Why has it proven so difficult for the Aztecs to add a HS player in the 100-150 range or an additional transfer with a proven track record to this recruiting class? Pulliam is the 38th ranked JC player in the country. Players ranked within ten spots above and 10 below this player are committed powerhouse programs like Louisiana Tech, Robert Morris, Arkansas Little Rock, and Cal State Bakersfield. Wetzell looks like a classic final roster spot guy as an unranked GT who averaged only 5.9 points and 3.8 rebounds in 18 1/2 minutes as a RS junior on a dreadful Vandy team. Despite a huge hole at the position and a virtual guarantee of major minutes, this is the best that Dutcher and company could come up with to address a clear need in the front court? Maybe you should look at more videos and less of the start system. Evidently, Dutcher doesn't agree with the start system and your assessment. Since you are just a fan and not a coach, then I will put my confidence in Dutch over you. Dutch is going after more hard working chip on their shoulder type of recruits than a couple of years ago and I am ok with it. He wants character kids. Seem like you have difficulties with it. I think the recruiting for G5 teams is more difficult than the days before G5 and P5. The P5 schools have more money to throw on athletics than the G5s do, so they have caught up with some of the G5 basketball schools. It is getting tougher to compete with P5 schools in recruitment. This isn’t exactly a banner recruiting class. I’m not saying that any of these players are incapable of making a positive impact. I’m not writing any of them off before they’ve even stepped on to Fisher Court. But the coaches have known for years that these four scholarships were going to be vacant and this group isn’t creating any buzz within the conference. Players like these can and do become good college basketball players but if you keep putting together classes like this it will eventually catch up to you. It’s mid-May and the questions are “who’s going to play the four?” and “what kind of production are we going to get from this position?” not “How are we going to get minutes for this over-abundance of depth and talent?”
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Post by Den60 on May 15, 2019 15:31:24 GMT -8
Ziegler says SDSU isn’t interested in him. Can someone please elaborate? Why? skills, attitude, chemistry, past history, drugs, legal, what? How does a local SD kid sniffing around USD and UCSB doesn't want to be an AZTEC or vice-versa? Perhaps once the coaches saw him in Div 1 competition they feel he isn't the "star" ranking he had out of high school. Where is MJ Cage these days? God knows we had people begging for him. We got Chol after he left Zona. Was he a superstar when he played for us? Recruiting can be a crap shoot unless your are Duke, Kentucky or some other blue blood who knows when they make a mistake they can recruit over it. We are not Duke or Kentucky. We are recruiting higher valued recruits and landing them rather than waiting until they bounce back. But that doesn't mean those recruits will produce. Our highest valued recruits have been Malik Pope and Winston Shepard. Neither made it to the NBA. The former was the biggest tease we have seen on campus. The latter was a solid player, great defense and leadership, but never lived up to his initial expectations, but I would love to have his clone on the team for four more years.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2019 16:06:12 GMT -8
We can discuss the disparity between the haves and have nots in college basketball. But I think the real issue is how are we doing as compared to the top end of the also rans. Mussellman was able to attract talent and depth to his team despite Nevada’s membership in the MWC and it’s complete lack of a resume. Fresno has been better than the Aztecs. Utah State had a really nice team last year. NM should be improved next year.
Nate performed at decent, yet unspectacular, level last year. Like Cage, he would’ve been on the pine in OR. If he isn’t paired with a dominant front court player I think we may see him have a more difficult time next year.
Regardless, Nate’s presence allowed McDaniels to get on track last year. Had the Aztecs signed a big body like Cage, Zylan and his all pac-12 abilities would’ve likely been wearing the red and black for two more years.
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Post by Gundo on May 15, 2019 16:47:09 GMT -8
Can someone please elaborate? Why? skills, attitude, chemistry, past history, drugs, legal, what? How does a local SD kid sniffing around USD and UCSB doesn't want to be an AZTEC or vice-versa? Perhaps once the coaches saw him in Div 1 competition they feel he isn't the "star" ranking he had out of high school. Where is MJ Cage these days? God knows we had people begging for him. We got Chol after he left Zona. Was he a superstar when he played for us? Recruiting can be a crap shoot unless your are Duke, Kentucky or some other blue blood who knows when they make a mistake they can recruit over it. We are not Duke or Kentucky. We are recruiting higher valued recruits and landing them rather than waiting until they bounce back. But that doesn't mean those recruits will produce. Our highest valued recruits have been Malik Pope and Winston Shepard. Neither made it to the NBA. The former was the biggest tease we have seen on campus. The latter was a solid player, great defense and leadership, but never lived up to his initial expectations, but I would love to have his clone on the team for four more years. Understood, I was looking for any "inside baseball" info? I just don't think that between AAU, college MBB scouting and recruiting services that they could get it "that wrong", meaning Norris was a 5-star player from Scout & Rivals, 4-star on ESPN. And his true skill level is Big West or WCC caliber? I get it; it happens, MJ Cage 4-star, sat at Oregon and then transferred to Pepperdine, but he wasn't a 5-star kid.
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Post by azteccc on May 16, 2019 7:17:56 GMT -8
We can discuss the disparity between the haves and have nots in college basketball. But I think the real issue is how are we doing as compared to the top end of the also rans. Mussellman was able to attract talent and depth to his team despite Nevada’s membership in the MWC and it’s complete lack of a resume. Fresno has been better than the Aztecs. Utah State had a really nice team last year. NM should be improved next year. Nate performed at decent, yet unspectacular, level last year. Like Cage, he would’ve been on the pine in OR. If he isn’t paired with a dominant front court player I think we may see him have a more difficult time next year. Regardless, Nate’s presence allowed McDaniels to get on track last year. Had the Aztecs signed a big body like Cage, Zylan and his all pac-12 abilities would’ve likely been wearing the red and black for two more years. Not a great take.
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Post by azteccc on May 16, 2019 7:18:15 GMT -8
Do we play a 12 man rotation? If they don't feel that Norris or anyone else out there is worthy of a scholarship right now then why be desperate and sign one? This again. What exactly makes the Aztecs unique in not needing to use their scholarships? Are they pulling in the best MW recruiting classes despite the open spots? Are they dominating the MW with 12 dudes? Is our team filled with all conference players? Is the bench overflowing with legitimate starting quality talent? Is it a positive sign that year after year the Aztecs can’t find enough players of sufficient talent to fill the roster? You’ve created a false binary: sign a bad player or leave an open roster spot. There’s another option, go out and sign a quality athlete. This was a much better argument when the Aztecs were putting together at-large bid resumes year after year and our players and recruiting classes were regularly well ranked in conference. For example, had the Aztecs signed Zylan, Malik, and Trey while leaving the final scholarship open this take would be justified. This would be especially true if leaving schollies open hadn’t become a pattern. Feagin is easily our best addition as he’s a top 20 grad transfer, not a top 20 transfer mind you, but clearly a good get. Our lone HS recruit is listed at 345 in the national rankings by 247 sports. Why has it proven so difficult for the Aztecs to add a HS player in the 100-150 range or an additional transfer with a proven track record to this recruiting class? Pulliam is the 38th ranked JC player in the country. Players ranked within ten spots above and 10 below this player are committed to powerhouse programs like Louisiana Tech, Robert Morris, Arkansas Little Rock, and Cal State Bakersfield. Wetzell looks like a classic final roster spot guy as an unranked GT who averaged only 5.9 points and 3.8 rebounds in 18 1/2 minutes as a RS junior on a dreadful Vandy team. Despite a huge hole at the position and a virtual guarantee of major minutes, this is the best that Dutcher and company could come up with to address a clear need in the front court? This isn’t exactly a banner recruiting class. I’m not saying that any of these players are incapable of making a positive impact. I’m not writing any of them off before they’ve even stepped on to Fisher Court. But the coaches have known for years that these four scholarships were going to be vacant and this group isn’t creating any buzz within the conference. Players like these can and do become good college basketball players but if you keep putting together classes like this it will eventually catch up to you. It’s mid-May and the questions are “who’s going to play the four?” and “what kind of production are we going to get from this position?” not “How are we going to get minutes for this over-abundance of depth and talent?” Poor take.
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Post by survalli on May 16, 2019 8:57:09 GMT -8
We can discuss the disparity between the haves and have nots in college basketball. But I think the real issue is how are we doing as compared to the top end of the also rans. Mussellman was able to attract talent and depth to his team despite Nevada’s membership in the MWC and it’s complete lack of a resume. Fresno has been better than the Aztecs. Utah State had a really nice team last year. NM should be improved next year. Nate performed at decent, yet unspectacular, level last year. Like Cage, he would’ve been on the pine in OR. If he isn’t paired with a dominant front court player I think we may see him have a more difficult time next year. Regardless, Nate’s presence allowed McDaniels to get on track last year. Had the Aztecs signed a big body like Cage, Zylan and his all pac-12 abilities would’ve likely been wearing the red and black for two more years. Not a great take. as Coach Fisher would say, we let the record speak for itself. when it comes to recruiting and hiring assistants, its been a massive struggle. If it wasn't for the 4 Africans last year, we may have had 4 open scholarships.
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Post by couldashoulda on May 16, 2019 9:15:45 GMT -8
Uh, USD and UCSB are Div. 1 and USD beat us this year by 12 points in our house. Yes, but look at our record with them over the years. They fielded a veteran team. We were young and N Mensah was a much better player at the end of the year than he was in the beginning. Same with Arop. Our BB program is still much, much better than USD. My point is that I don't feel it's completely appropriate to bag on another program as "less than" when they kind of stomped us in our last meeting. Obviously the players they have recruited were good enough to beat the "better" program that night. Over the years, sure, the Aztecs have been the better program. But, things can change, sometimes in a hurry. Just look at Nevada and see their irrelevance prior to Mussleman.
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Post by Den60 on May 16, 2019 9:45:18 GMT -8
Yes, but look at our record with them over the years. They fielded a veteran team. We were young and N Mensah was a much better player at the end of the year than he was in the beginning. Same with Arop. Our BB program is still much, much better than USD. My point is that I don't feel it's completely appropriate to bag on another program as "less than" when they kind of stomped us in our last meeting. Obviously the players they have recruited were good enough to beat the "better" program that night. Over the years, sure, the Aztecs have been the better program. But, things can change, sometimes in a hurry. Just look at Nevada and see their irrelevance prior to Mussleman. Understood, I am not bagging on USD, just pointing out that our program has been better than their's over many years now. As for Mussleman there are rumours that he didn't run a clean program. What is a fact is that he was a short timer there, looking to parlay some short term success into a better gig. Personally, I'm not comfortable having that kind of combination leading SDSU.
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Post by azteccc on May 16, 2019 9:54:30 GMT -8
as Coach Fisher would say, we let the record speak for itself. when it comes to recruiting and hiring assistants, its been a massive struggle. If it wasn't for the 4 Africans last year, we may have had 4 open scholarships. Exactly- when it comes to recruiting, let the record speak for itself.. it has decidedly not “been a massive struggle”. When it comes to claiming that hiring assistants “has been a massive struggle”... please show your work.
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Post by standiego on May 16, 2019 11:20:20 GMT -8
so what are opinions on our current recruiting compared to Nevada, Fresno, Lobos , UNLV, USU , BSU ....
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Post by Frantic on May 16, 2019 11:36:16 GMT -8
Dutcher has 13 commits since Fisher retired two years ago in April 2017:
Jordan Campbell Malachi Flynn Matt Mitchell Jordan Shackel Adam Seiko Ed Chang Aguek Arop Nathan Mensah Joel Mensah KJ Feagin Trey Pullium Yanni Wetzell Keshad Johnson
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Post by survalli on May 16, 2019 11:38:01 GMT -8
as Coach Fisher would say, we let the record speak for itself. when it comes to recruiting and hiring assistants, its been a massive struggle. If it wasn't for the 4 Africans last year, we may have had 4 open scholarships. Exactly- when it comes to recruiting, let the record speak for itself.. it has decidedly not “been a massive struggle”. When it comes to claiming that hiring assistants “has been a massive struggle”... please show your work. this might be the first year in quite awhile that we have failed to recruit So Cal. (we got Feagin on Transfer) We had 4 scholarships. It might not be time dial 911, but it is disconcerting. Saw warning signs last year that we were losing So Cal.
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Post by survalli on May 16, 2019 11:45:24 GMT -8
Dutcher's has 12 commits since Fisher retired two years ago in April 2017: Jordan Campbell Matt Mitchell Jordan Shackel Adam Seiko Ed Chang Aguek Arop Nathan Mensah Joel Mensah KJ Feagin Trey Pullium Yanni Wetzell Keshad Johnson missing Flynn.
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Post by azteccc on May 16, 2019 11:56:42 GMT -8
Exactly- when it comes to recruiting, let the record speak for itself.. it has decidedly not “been a massive struggle”. When it comes to claiming that hiring assistants “has been a massive struggle”... please show your work. this might be the first year in quite awhile that we have failed to recruit So Cal. (we got Feagin on Transfer) We had 4 scholarships. It might not be time dial 911, but it is disconcerting. Saw warning signs last year that we were losing So Cal. Recruiting includes transfers, and signing a So Cal player for no reason other than to not “lose” (??) So Cal is not a good reason to sign a player. There are no “warning signs” when it comes to SDSU basketball recruiting.
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Post by survalli on May 16, 2019 12:06:48 GMT -8
this might be the first year in quite awhile that we have failed to recruit So Cal. (we got Feagin on Transfer) We had 4 scholarships. It might not be time dial 911, but it is disconcerting. Saw warning signs last year that we were losing So Cal. Recruiting includes transfers, and signing a So Cal player for no reason other than to not “lose” (??) So Cal is not a good reason to sign a player. There are no “warning signs” when it comes to SDSU basketball recruiting. /shrug one man's trash is another man's treasure. i suppose you are intimately involved in the AAU/High School scene to be able to give that sort of comment credence
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