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Post by hoobs on Apr 12, 2019 4:04:39 GMT -8
No, we play USD as a Home & Home series because it helps put a decent team on the OOC schedule every year and is the right thing to for college basketball in San Diego.
I'll be slightly more blunt, arging that we shouldn't continue the Home & Home series with USD is one of the stupidest things I've read on this board... and that's saying A LOT.
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Post by azson on Apr 12, 2019 7:47:02 GMT -8
USD was techincally a better team than we were this year. Yes, agreed, but for some here they will always be Little Sister/beneath us.
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Post by MontezumasRevenge on Apr 12, 2019 9:22:13 GMT -8
No, we play USD as a Home & Home series because it helps put a decent team on the OOC schedule every year and is the right thing to for college basketball in San Diego. I'll be slightly more blunt, arging that we shouldn't continue the Home & Home series with USD is one of the stupidest things I've read on this board... and that's saying A LOT. You claim that arguing against the series is one of the stupidest things you've read, yet your arguments in support of playing them are dubious at best. In all the years that we've beaten them, has it greatly improved our RPI/NET rating or been remotely considered a good win on our tourney resume? We know the two times we've lost to them recently that it's sunk us in the metrics (or would have had we lost). I would trust our coaches to be able to find another "decent team" to play that at the very least didn't pose such a serious risk to our NET rating as much. The expanded conference schedule coupled with the decline of the conference makes it even more important that we're not locked into low/no upside games such as USD. As for it being the right thing for college basketball in San Diego, what quantifiable measurement are you basing that on? Does it really benefit SDSU, or does it just disproportionately benefit USD? How come this desire to do what's good for other entities in San Diego at the expense of SDSU isn't applied to other arguments? There was a time when it was perceived that Ron Fowler wanted the series to continue so I could understand why the coaches/AD might agree to it, but IIRC he's gone on record in recent years saying he really didn't care if it continued, so the one justifiable reason I could see has gone out the window.
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Post by chris92065 on Apr 12, 2019 9:30:50 GMT -8
No, we play USD as a Home & Home series because it helps put a decent team on the OOC schedule every year and is the right thing to for college basketball in San Diego. I'll be slightly more blunt, arging that we shouldn't continue the Home & Home series with USD is one of the stupidest things I've read on this board... and that's saying A LOT. You claim that arguing against the series is one of the stupidest things you've read, yet your arguments in support of playing them are dubious at best. In all the years that we've beaten them, has it greatly improved our RPI/NET rating or been remotely considered a good win on our tourney resume? We know the two times we've lost to them recently that it's sunk us in the metrics (or would have had we lost). I would trust our coaches to be able to find another "decent team" to play that at the very least didn't pose such a serious risk to our NET rating as much. The expanded conference schedule coupled with the decline of the conference makes it even more important that we're not locked into low/no upside games such as USD. As for it being the right thing for college basketball in San Diego, what quantifiable measurement are you basing that on? Does it really benefit SDSU, or does it just disproportionately benefit USD? How come this desire to do what's good for other entities in San Diego at the expense of SDSU isn't applied to other arguments? There was a time when it was perceived that Ron Fowler wanted the series to continue so I could understood why the coaches/AD might agree to it, but IIRC he's gone on record in recent years saying he really didn't care if it continued, so the one justifiable reason I could see has gone out the window. The only draw for usd is that it is cheap. We should demand 2 home games/1 away.
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Post by standiego on Apr 12, 2019 9:51:03 GMT -8
The big question is does it benefit SDSU to play AT USD .
First Dutcher needs to put together a quality team that can do well in OOC , MW Conference and MW T. Fourth place finish last couple years in MW- should not be considered. a good job .
Then figure out a schedule for OOC . Not losing to teams that we should beat at home .
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Post by hoobs on Apr 12, 2019 10:34:23 GMT -8
No, we play USD as a Home & Home series because it helps put a decent team on the OOC schedule every year and is the right thing to for college basketball in San Diego. I'll be slightly more blunt, arging that we shouldn't continue the Home & Home series with USD is one of the stupidest things I've read on this board... and that's saying A LOT. You claim that arguing against the series is one of the stupidest things you've read, yet your arguments in support of playing them are dubious at best. In all the years that we've beaten them, has it greatly improved our RPI/NET rating or been remotely considered a good win on our tourney resume? We know the two times we've lost to them recently that it's sunk us in the metrics (or would have had we lost). I would trust our coaches to be able to find another "decent team" to play that at the very least didn't pose such a serious risk to our NET rating as much. The expanded conference schedule coupled with the decline of the conference makes it even more important that we're not locked into low/no upside games such as USD. As for it being the right thing for college basketball in San Diego, what quantifiable measurement are you basing that on? Does it really benefit SDSU, or does it just disproportionately benefit USD? How come this desire to do what's good for other entities in San Diego at the expense of SDSU isn't applied to other arguments? There was a time when it was perceived that Ron Fowler wanted the series to continue so I could understand why the coaches/AD might agree to it, but IIRC he's gone on record in recent years saying he really didn't care if it continued, so the one justifiable reason I could see has gone out the window. My argument to continue the series: 1. We have a set number of OOC games to fill every season. This is a MUCH harder job than all the armchair Athletic Directors on this message board think it is. We have neither the budget to buy really good home games, nor to extensively travel for Home & Home series all across the country. 2. Ad hoc, year to year scheduling of OOC games is a nightmare of "who has what dates open". Think of like a 100-dimensional chess board... that's what you have to work with in concocting who you can even invite to play on certain dates, let alone get them to sign a contract (requiring $$$, influence, goodwill, blackmail photos, forging of signatures, etc). 3. "Premium" opponents look at us exactly like you & a bunch of other folks are describing USD: " Playing them offers no benefit... nothing gained from beating them and it looks bad if you lose to them." Further complicating that, SDSU has enough of a 'good' reputation now that 'premium' teams are reasonably afraid of losing to us -- especially @ Viejas. That makes it many times more difficult to schedule them, especially for a Home & Home. The exact same argument you use above for why we shouldn't play USD, is exactly the argument UCLA etc. use for not playing us. And I happen to think it's really sh!tty to be a pronounced hypocrite. 4. Having the type of snotty, arrogant attitude that normally is associated with 'blue-bloods' -- without actually being anything close to a 'blue-blood' -- is a particularly distasteful look for SDSU fans.
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Post by moctezumaii on Apr 12, 2019 11:36:45 GMT -8
You claim that arguing against the series is one of the stupidest things you've read, yet your arguments in support of playing them are dubious at best. In all the years that we've beaten them, has it greatly improved our RPI/NET rating or been remotely considered a good win on our tourney resume? We know the two times we've lost to them recently that it's sunk us in the metrics (or would have had we lost). I would trust our coaches to be able to find another "decent team" to play that at the very least didn't pose such a serious risk to our NET rating as much. The expanded conference schedule coupled with the decline of the conference makes it even more important that we're not locked into low/no upside games such as USD. As for it being the right thing for college basketball in San Diego, what quantifiable measurement are you basing that on? Does it really benefit SDSU, or does it just disproportionately benefit USD? How come this desire to do what's good for other entities in San Diego at the expense of SDSU isn't applied to other arguments? There was a time when it was perceived that Ron Fowler wanted the series to continue so I could understand why the coaches/AD might agree to it, but IIRC he's gone on record in recent years saying he really didn't care if it continued, so the one justifiable reason I could see has gone out the window. My argument to continue the series: 1. We have a set number of OOC games to fill every season. This is a MUCH harder job than all the armchair Athletic Directors on this message board think it is. We have neither the budget to buy really good home games, nor to extensively travel for Home & Home series all across the country. 2. Ad hoc, year to year scheduling of OOC games is a nightmare of "who has what dates open". Think of like a 100-dimensional chess board... that's what you have to work with in concocting who you can even invite to play on certain dates, let alone get them to sign a contract (requiring $$$, influence, goodwill, blackmail photos, forging of signatures, etc). 3. "Premium" opponents look at us exactly like you & a bunch of other folks are describing USD: " Playing them offers no benefit... nothing gained from beating them and it looks bad if you lose to them." Further complicating that, SDSU has enough of a 'good' reputation now that 'premium' teams are reasonably afraid of losing to us -- especially @ Viejas. That makes it many times more difficult to schedule them, especially for a Home & Home. The exact same argument you use above for why we shouldn't play USD, is exactly the argument UCLA etc. use for not playing us. And I happen to think it's really sh!tty to be a pronounced hypocrite. 4. Having the type of snotty, arrogant attitude that normally is associated with 'blue-bloods' -- without actually being anything close to a 'blue-blood' -- is a particularly distasteful look for SDSU fans. <iframe width="36" height="13.220000000000027" style="position: absolute; width: 36px; height: 13.22px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_5957113" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="36" height="13.220000000000027" style="position: absolute; width: 36px; height: 13.22px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1728px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_38585249" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="36" height="13.220000000000027" style="position: absolute; width: 36px; height: 13.22px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 593px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_18365052" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="36" height="13.220000000000027" style="position: absolute; width: 36px; height: 13.22px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1728px; top: 593px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_87017376" scrolling="no"></iframe> Generally, agree with what you say. I would say there's some nuance here, and that is, San Diego State has, or at least had (a debate for another time) a national brand. People know who we are. USD is white bread. It is white bread year after year after year, the same white bread as last year's white bread. Sometimes, it's moldy white bread. But every year, the best we can hope for is some more boring white bread that doesn't give us stomach cramps. UCLA scheduling us for two games wouldn't quite be as lame, IMO, as us playing USD every year at their place or ours. How about taking a break during the A-10 cycle to add a premium game with someone, anyone? Out of the question?
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Post by hoobs on Apr 12, 2019 12:05:37 GMT -8
My argument to continue the series: 1. We have a set number of OOC games to fill every season. This is a MUCH harder job than all the armchair Athletic Directors on this message board think it is. We have neither the budget to buy really good home games, nor to extensively travel for Home & Home series all across the country. 2. Ad hoc, year to year scheduling of OOC games is a nightmare of "who has what dates open". Think of like a 100-dimensional chess board... that's what you have to work with in concocting who you can even invite to play on certain dates, let alone get them to sign a contract (requiring $$$, influence, goodwill, blackmail photos, forging of signatures, etc). 3. "Premium" opponents look at us exactly like you & a bunch of other folks are describing USD: " Playing them offers no benefit... nothing gained from beating them and it looks bad if you lose to them." Further complicating that, SDSU has enough of a 'good' reputation now that 'premium' teams are reasonably afraid of losing to us -- especially @ Viejas. That makes it many times more difficult to schedule them, especially for a Home & Home. The exact same argument you use above for why we shouldn't play USD, is exactly the argument UCLA etc. use for not playing us. And I happen to think it's really sh!tty to be a pronounced hypocrite. 4. Having the type of snotty, arrogant attitude that normally is associated with 'blue-bloods' -- without actually being anything close to a 'blue-blood' -- is a particularly distasteful look for SDSU fans. <iframe width="36" height="13.220000000000027" style="position: absolute; width: 36px; height: 13.22px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_5957113" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="36" height="13.220000000000027" style="position: absolute; width: 36px; height: 13.22px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1728px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_38585249" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="36" height="13.220000000000027" style="position: absolute; width: 36px; height: 13.22px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 593px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_18365052" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="36" height="13.220000000000027" style="position: absolute; width: 36px; height: 13.22px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1728px; top: 593px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_87017376" scrolling="no"></iframe> Generally, agree with what you say. I would say there's some nuance here, and that is, San Diego State has, or at least had (a debate for another time) a national brand. People know who we are. USD is white bread. It is white bread year after year after year, the same white bread as last year's white bread. Sometimes, it's moldy white bread. But every year, the best we can hope for is some more boring white bread that doesn't give us stomach cramps. UCLA scheduling us for two games wouldn't quite be as lame, IMO, as us playing USD every year at their place or ours. How about taking a break during the A-10 cycle to add a premium game with someone, anyone? Out of the question? General comment... yes, there are ways SDSU could improve OOC scheduling for men's hoops. Dropping our Home & Home with USD is not one of them. I would say that UCLA fans/admins perceive the gap between them & SDSU is at least as big as SDSU fans seem to perceive the gap is to USD. If "we" are pissed off about UCLA looking down on us... I don't see how it makes sense to do the *exact* same thing to USD.
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Post by MontezumasRevenge on Apr 12, 2019 12:49:09 GMT -8
You claim that arguing against the series is one of the stupidest things you've read, yet your arguments in support of playing them are dubious at best. In all the years that we've beaten them, has it greatly improved our RPI/NET rating or been remotely considered a good win on our tourney resume? We know the two times we've lost to them recently that it's sunk us in the metrics (or would have had we lost). I would trust our coaches to be able to find another "decent team" to play that at the very least didn't pose such a serious risk to our NET rating as much. The expanded conference schedule coupled with the decline of the conference makes it even more important that we're not locked into low/no upside games such as USD. As for it being the right thing for college basketball in San Diego, what quantifiable measurement are you basing that on? Does it really benefit SDSU, or does it just disproportionately benefit USD? How come this desire to do what's good for other entities in San Diego at the expense of SDSU isn't applied to other arguments? There was a time when it was perceived that Ron Fowler wanted the series to continue so I could understand why the coaches/AD might agree to it, but IIRC he's gone on record in recent years saying he really didn't care if it continued, so the one justifiable reason I could see has gone out the window. My argument to continue the series: 1. We have a set number of OOC games to fill every season. This is a MUCH harder job than all the armchair Athletic Directors on this message board think it is. We have neither the budget to buy really good home games, nor to extensively travel for Home & Home series all across the country. 2. Ad hoc, year to year scheduling of OOC games is a nightmare of "who has what dates open". Think of like a 100-dimensional chess board... that's what you have to work with in concocting who you can even invite to play on certain dates, let alone get them to sign a contract (requiring $$$, influence, goodwill, blackmail photos, forging of signatures, etc). 3. "Premium" opponents look at us exactly like you & a bunch of other folks are describing USD: " Playing them offers no benefit... nothing gained from beating them and it looks bad if you lose to them." Further complicating that, SDSU has enough of a 'good' reputation now that 'premium' teams are reasonably afraid of losing to us -- especially @ Viejas. That makes it many times more difficult to schedule them, especially for a Home & Home. The exact same argument you use above for why we shouldn't play USD, is exactly the argument UCLA etc. use for not playing us. And I happen to think it's really sh!tty to be a pronounced hypocrite. 4. Having the type of snotty, arrogant attitude that normally is associated with 'blue-bloods' -- without actually being anything close to a 'blue-blood' -- is a particularly distasteful look for SDSU fans. If scheduling OOC is so problematic, then how come our coaches were against the expansion of the MWC conference schedule a few years ago? I'm sure scheduling isn't always easy, but that's one of the reasons why JD and Dutcher are well compensated. Implying that the USD game has to always be replaced with a really good home game or involve a ton of travel every single year is a straw man. You could make a case that if we absolutely had to we're better off scheduling another random body bag game when it comes to risk and our NET rating. Your argument that people against the USD series are hypocrites falls flat for the simple reason that premium schools/blue bloods aren't scheduling us for H&H matchups at even close to the same rate that we have with USD. I'm fully aware and realistic of where SDSU stands in the basketball landscape - and one thing's for sure is that SDSU has had a higher profile and reputation both nationally and locally than USD for at least 10 years running. Continuing to accept the risk from playing them without getting any associated benefit in return might give us some sort of moral high ground to stand on, but how does that actually benefit the program? The reality is that any "virtue points" we might get by playing USD don't mean a damn thing to other schools when they consider whether to schedule us or not. The comparisons between us and blue bloods not wanting to play against perceived lesser competition is also flawed because for most of the last 10 years, if a a team lost to us it wasn't considered a bad loss and many times beating us at home was considered a good win. The same has never been true of the USD game for us. In addition, blue bloods have multiple opportunities to obtain quality wins during conference play - we do not have that luxury and therefore end up being punished more severely for losing these types of games. Finally, your other accusations of being snotty and arrogant is completely ass backwards. The people arguing against the series actually do recognize and respect that USD is a dangerous game for us. It's that coupled with the fact it offers way more downside than upside that provides a completely rational argument against it that has nothing to do with arrogance and everything to do with wanting to maximize our chances for qualifying for an at large berth. Hardly stupid as you seem to characterize it.
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Post by gigglyforshrigley on Apr 12, 2019 13:08:11 GMT -8
My argument to continue the series: 1. We have a set number of OOC games to fill every season. This is a MUCH harder job than all the armchair Athletic Directors on this message board think it is. We have neither the budget to buy really good home games, nor to extensively travel for Home & Home series all across the country. 2. Ad hoc, year to year scheduling of OOC games is a nightmare of "who has what dates open". Think of like a 100-dimensional chess board... that's what you have to work with in concocting who you can even invite to play on certain dates, let alone get them to sign a contract (requiring $$$, influence, goodwill, blackmail photos, forging of signatures, etc). 3. "Premium" opponents look at us exactly like you & a bunch of other folks are describing USD: " Playing them offers no benefit... nothing gained from beating them and it looks bad if you lose to them." Further complicating that, SDSU has enough of a 'good' reputation now that 'premium' teams are reasonably afraid of losing to us -- especially @ Viejas. That makes it many times more difficult to schedule them, especially for a Home & Home. The exact same argument you use above for why we shouldn't play USD, is exactly the argument UCLA etc. use for not playing us. And I happen to think it's really sh!tty to be a pronounced hypocrite. 4. Having the type of snotty, arrogant attitude that normally is associated with 'blue-bloods' -- without actually being anything close to a 'blue-blood' -- is a particularly distasteful look for SDSU fans. If scheduling OOC is so problematic, then how come our coaches were against the expansion of the MWC conference schedule a few years ago? I'm sure scheduling isn't always easy, but that's one of the reasons why JD and Dutcher are well compensated. Implying that the USD game has to always be replaced with a really good home game or involve a ton of travel every single year is a straw man. You could make a case that if we absolutely had to we're better off scheduling another random body bag game when it comes to risk and our NET rating. Your argument that people against the USD series are hypocrites falls flat for the simple reason that premium schools/blue bloods aren't scheduling us for H&H matchups at even close to the same rate that we have with USD. I'm fully aware and realistic of where SDSU stands in the basketball landscape - and one thing's for sure is that SDSU has had a higher profile and reputation both nationally and locally than USD for at least 10 years running. Continuing to accept the risk from playing them without getting any associated benefit in return might give us some sort of moral high ground to stand on, but how does that actually benefit the program? The reality is that any "virtue points" we might get by playing USD don't mean a damn thing to other schools when they consider whether to schedule us or not. The comparisons between us and blue bloods not wanting to play against perceived lesser competition is also flawed because for most of the last 10 years, if a a team lost to us it wasn't considered a bad loss and many times beating us at home was considered a good win. The same has never been true of the USD game for us. In addition, blue bloods have multiple opportunities to obtain quality wins during conference play - we do not have that luxury and therefore end up being punished more severely for losing these types of games. Finally, your other accusations of being snotty and arrogant is completely ass backwards. The people arguing against the series actually do recognize and respect that USD is a dangerous game for us. It's that coupled with the fact it offers way more downside than upside that provides a completely rational argument against it that has nothing to do with arrogance and everything to do with wanting to maximize our chances for qualifying for an at large berth. Hardly stupid as you seem to characterize it. USD has also been on the uptrend though. If they could consistently be decent it wouldn't be a "no reward" type of game. It could turn into a somewhat decent OOC win if they can finish in the top 4 or so of the WCC
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Post by moctezumaii on Apr 12, 2019 13:09:06 GMT -8
My argument to continue the series: 1. We have a set number of OOC games to fill every season. This is a MUCH harder job than all the armchair Athletic Directors on this message board think it is. We have neither the budget to buy really good home games, nor to extensively travel for Home & Home series all across the country. 2. Ad hoc, year to year scheduling of OOC games is a nightmare of "who has what dates open". Think of like a 100-dimensional chess board... that's what you have to work with in concocting who you can even invite to play on certain dates, let alone get them to sign a contract (requiring $$$, influence, goodwill, blackmail photos, forging of signatures, etc). 3. "Premium" opponents look at us exactly like you & a bunch of other folks are describing USD: " Playing them offers no benefit... nothing gained from beating them and it looks bad if you lose to them." Further complicating that, SDSU has enough of a 'good' reputation now that 'premium' teams are reasonably afraid of losing to us -- especially @ Viejas. That makes it many times more difficult to schedule them, especially for a Home & Home. The exact same argument you use above for why we shouldn't play USD, is exactly the argument UCLA etc. use for not playing us. And I happen to think it's really sh!tty to be a pronounced hypocrite. 4. Having the type of snotty, arrogant attitude that normally is associated with 'blue-bloods' -- without actually being anything close to a 'blue-blood' -- is a particularly distasteful look for SDSU fans. If scheduling OOC is so problematic, then how come our coaches were against the expansion of the MWC conference schedule a few years ago? I'm sure scheduling isn't always easy, but that's one of the reasons why JD and Dutcher are well compensated. Implying that the USD game has to always be replaced with a really good home game or involve a ton of travel every single year is a straw man. You could make a case that if we absolutely had to we're better off scheduling another random body bag game when it comes to risk and our NET rating. Your argument that people against the USD series are hypocrites falls flat for the simple reason that premium schools/blue bloods aren't scheduling us for H&H matchups at even close to the same rate that we have with USD. I'm fully aware and realistic of where SDSU stands in the basketball landscape - and one thing's for sure is that SDSU has had a higher profile and reputation both nationally and locally than USD for at least 10 years running. Continuing to accept the risk from playing them without getting any associated benefit in return might give us some sort of moral high ground to stand on, but how does that actually benefit the program? The reality is that any "virtue points" we might get by playing USD don't mean a damn thing to other schools when they consider whether to schedule us or not. The comparisons between us and blue bloods not wanting to play against perceived lesser competition is also flawed because for most of the last 10 years, if a a team lost to us it wasn't considered a bad loss and many times beating us at home was considered a good win. The same has never been true of the USD game for us. In addition, blue bloods have multiple opportunities to obtain quality wins during conference play - we do not have that luxury and therefore end up being punished more severely for losing these types of games. Finally, your other accusations of being snotty and arrogant is completely ass backwards. The people arguing against the series actually do recognize and respect that USD is a dangerous game for us. It's that coupled with the fact it offers way more downside than upside that provides a completely rational argument against it that has nothing to do with arrogance and everything to do with wanting to maximize our chances for qualifying for an at large berth. Hardly stupid as you seem to characterize it. Boom.
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Post by MontezumasRevenge on Apr 12, 2019 13:19:19 GMT -8
If scheduling OOC is so problematic, then how come our coaches were against the expansion of the MWC conference schedule a few years ago? I'm sure scheduling isn't always easy, but that's one of the reasons why JD and Dutcher are well compensated. Implying that the USD game has to always be replaced with a really good home game or involve a ton of travel every single year is a straw man. You could make a case that if we absolutely had to we're better off scheduling another random body bag game when it comes to risk and our NET rating. Your argument that people against the USD series are hypocrites falls flat for the simple reason that premium schools/blue bloods aren't scheduling us for H&H matchups at even close to the same rate that we have with USD. I'm fully aware and realistic of where SDSU stands in the basketball landscape - and one thing's for sure is that SDSU has had a higher profile and reputation both nationally and locally than USD for at least 10 years running. Continuing to accept the risk from playing them without getting any associated benefit in return might give us some sort of moral high ground to stand on, but how does that actually benefit the program? The reality is that any "virtue points" we might get by playing USD don't mean a damn thing to other schools when they consider whether to schedule us or not. The comparisons between us and blue bloods not wanting to play against perceived lesser competition is also flawed because for most of the last 10 years, if a a team lost to us it wasn't considered a bad loss and many times beating us at home was considered a good win. The same has never been true of the USD game for us. In addition, blue bloods have multiple opportunities to obtain quality wins during conference play - we do not have that luxury and therefore end up being punished more severely for losing these types of games. Finally, your other accusations of being snotty and arrogant is completely ass backwards. The people arguing against the series actually do recognize and respect that USD is a dangerous game for us. It's that coupled with the fact it offers way more downside than upside that provides a completely rational argument against it that has nothing to do with arrogance and everything to do with wanting to maximize our chances for qualifying for an at large berth. Hardly stupid as you seem to characterize it. USD has also been on the uptrend though. If they could consistently be decent it wouldn't be a "no reward" type of game. It could turn into a somewhat decent OOC win if they can finish in the top 4 or so of the WCC When it becomes mutually beneficial to play them, then by all means let's do it. Until then though, there are much better ways to increase, or at least not risk, our standing.
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Post by gigglyforshrigley on Apr 12, 2019 13:22:27 GMT -8
USD has also been on the uptrend though. If they could consistently be decent it wouldn't be a "no reward" type of game. It could turn into a somewhat decent OOC win if they can finish in the top 4 or so of the WCC When it becomes mutually beneficial to play them, then by all means let's do it. Until then though, there are much better ways to increase, or at least not risk, our standing. Maybe this year is an exception, but don't we normally make the schedule a few years in advance? So we can't really predict how good they'll be
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Post by hoobs on Apr 12, 2019 13:36:49 GMT -8
Well, with all the sentiment against scheduling USD... fine, so then please tell us how you'd like SDSU to try to arrange its OOC year after year? Who do you want, and expect SDSU to be able to get/afford, to schedule? And what's your rationale.
To address some of your points...
Our coaches have been against expanding the MW conference schedule because the MW average is worse than the teams we're able to schedule OOC. That's a pretty rough indictment of the MW. Throw around attempted critiques of 'straw man' arguments all you want, but as far as I know the only way to schedule games is to 1) buy them, 2) schedule reciprocal agreements (home & home, home/home/away, or whatever), 3) or get paid to play road games. Scheduling another "body bag" game requires BUYING that game, while we can get USD on our schedule for free by playing them Home & Home. You want to schedule Home & Home with California Lutheran instead?
Say what you want, to me all this bitching about "playing them can only hurt us" is the exact same thing UCLA fans have said for years... so yeah, I think it's ENTIRELY fair to call it hypocritical.
The last couple seasons, losing to SDSU has been considered a Bad Loss. The last couple seasons USD had as good or better OOC results compared to SDSU. So 'boom' all you want, but "scoreboard" would seem to trump that argument.
Scheduling, and losing to Washington State, Cal, Brown, Arkansas-Little Rock hurt us more than playing USD in recent years. So who else do you not want to schedule?
And finally I'll come back to the money argument. Please explain how you want SDSU to pay for more "buy games" to replace the Home & Home series with USD?
There's a simple solution to this scheduling quandry... don't suck. If SDSU puts a better performing team on the court, we wouldn't lose to Washington State, Cal, Brown, Arkansas-Little Rock, USD, etc. as much.
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Post by hoobs on Apr 12, 2019 13:37:22 GMT -8
USD has also been on the uptrend though. If they could consistently be decent it wouldn't be a "no reward" type of game. It could turn into a somewhat decent OOC win if they can finish in the top 4 or so of the WCC When it becomes mutually beneficial to play them, then by all means let's do it. Until then though, there are much better ways to increase, or at least not risk, our standing. Re. underlined... Like what?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 14:41:11 GMT -8
When it becomes mutually beneficial to play them, then by all means let's do it. Until then though, there are much better ways to increase, or at least not risk, our standing. Re. underlined... Like what? I’m with you Hoobs. If not USD then who? What teams do we legitimately have a chance to beat that also wouldn’t hurt us if we lose? How many of those teams can we actually schedule? What crappy games would we have to take to cover the cost of such games? Playing USD is cheap and should allow us to pay more for another game. We aren’t giving up a better option by scheduling the Tereros.
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Post by MontezumasRevenge on Apr 12, 2019 14:59:46 GMT -8
Well, with all the sentiment against scheduling USD... fine, so then please tell us how you'd like SDSU to try to arrange its OOC year after year? Who do you want, and expect SDSU to be able to get/afford, to schedule? And what's your rationale. To address some of your points... Our coaches have been against expanding the MW conference schedule because the MW average is worse than the teams we're able to schedule OOC. That's a pretty rough indictment of the MW. Throw around attempted critiques of 'straw man' arguments all you want, but as far as I know the only way to schedule games is to 1) buy them, 2) schedule reciprocal agreements (home & home, home/home/away, or whatever), 3) or get paid to play road games. Scheduling another "body bag" game requires BUYING that game, while we can get USD on our schedule for free by playing them Home & Home. You want to schedule Home & Home with California Lutheran instead? Say what you want, to me all this bitching about "playing them can only hurt us" is the exact same thing UCLA fans have said for years... so yeah, I think it's ENTIRELY fair to call it hypocritical. The last couple seasons, losing to SDSU has been considered a Bad Loss. The last couple seasons USD had as good or better OOC results compared to SDSU. So 'boom' all you want, but "scoreboard" would seem to trump that argument. Scheduling, and losing to Washington State, Cal, Brown, Arkansas-Little Rock hurt us more than playing USD in recent years. So who else do you not want to schedule? And finally I'll come back to the money argument. Please explain how you want SDSU to pay for more "buy games" to replace the Home & Home series with USD? There's a simple solution to this scheduling quandry... don't suck. If SDSU puts a better performing team on the court, we wouldn't lose to Washington State, Cal, Brown, Arkansas-Little Rock, USD, etc. as much. Can you provide definitive evidence that financially and logistically there are absolutely no alternatives? How many times has UCLA scheduled a H&H with us the past 15 years versus the number of times we've actually played USD H&H? When that ratio evens out a little more then I'll feel a little more guilty about not wanting to schedule them.
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Post by hoobs on Apr 12, 2019 17:22:08 GMT -8
Can you provide definitive evidence that financially and logistically there are ANY alternatives?
SDSU coaches have talked FOR YEARS about the financial and logistical challenges in concocting OOC schedules.
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Post by MontezumasRevenge on Apr 12, 2019 19:31:29 GMT -8
Can you provide definitive evidence that financially and logistically there are ANY alternatives? SDSU coaches have talked FOR YEARS about the financial and logistical challenges in concocting OOC schedules. The coaches saying there's challenges in creating OOC schedules is a far cry from saying we really need that USD game every year or else we just can't make it work.
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Post by hoobs on Apr 12, 2019 19:42:32 GMT -8
Still waiting to read your plan, other than foot-stomping and complaining.
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