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Post by johneaztec on Feb 6, 2019 23:50:57 GMT -8
Do we really want to debate whether it's a positive that SDSU held San Jose St. and Air Force below their scoring averages? Whoo Hoo! That's great news. Knock yourself out. In the end the Aztecs are an average team in a bad conference. And the magic pixie dust is off the program. Just like many feared and warned when the program was hellbent on the HCIW idea. Too bad, it was nice while it lasted. Many on this board were hostile against those of us who did not think the HCIW idea was a good one, what now? Do you think Dutcher has been HC long enough to truly evaluate him?
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Post by sdsustoner on Feb 7, 2019 7:46:36 GMT -8
Tis true. At least Dutch isn't Trenkle. lol Can we PLEASE stop dumping on Fred Trenkle!!!!! The man was a good coach. Maybe not great, but good. He took over what was probably the worst D1 college BB program in the country. SDSU was not able to recruit a full roster of decent D1 players, as we saw when Fisher cleaned house after his first season here. (Which, as I recall, was dreadful, with NO conference wins.) No wonder Trenkle was unable to turn this program around. Let's remember that he was able to post one winning season (though barely). Dutch has taken over a team with ever so much better talent than the one that greeted Fred Trenkle. AzWm Dude was an extremely big jerk to interns. I have zero respect for that piece of garbage. He may have been a "decent" coach who couldn't recruit. But, I'll dump on him all I want.
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Post by gigglyforshrigley on Feb 7, 2019 7:49:23 GMT -8
Tis true. At least Dutch isn't Trenkle. lol Can we PLEASE stop dumping on Fred Trenkle!!!!! The man was a good coach. Maybe not great, but good. He took over what was probably the worst D1 college BB program in the country. SDSU was not able to recruit a full roster of decent D1 players, as we saw when Fisher cleaned house after his first season here. (Which, as I recall, was dreadful, with NO conference wins.) No wonder Trenkle was unable to turn this program around. Let's remember that he was able to post one winning season (though barely). Dutch has taken over a team with ever so much better talent than the one that greeted Fred Trenkle. AzWm what makes you think he was a good coach? Because he was animated on the sideline? He couldn't recruit, his teams weren't any good, he hasn't had any head coaching opportunities since, etc. There is nothing to merit him being considered a good coach
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Post by legkick on Feb 7, 2019 8:48:30 GMT -8
Do you think Dutcher has been HC long enough to truly evaluate him? Don't worry about it, you're responding to a johnny-come-lately fraud. Dutcher was made HCIW in 2011; dude didn't join the board until 2013. Dude didn't mention ANYTHING about doubts about HCIW until 2017, well after it was too late to do anything about it. People just don't want to accept that the HCIW concept bought us five or so more years of Steve Fisher and temporary protection against negative recruiting. I'll gladly take that; even with pure 20/20 foresight that we have to burn it down and start over if Dutcher fails. To put it another way, could you imagine what the torches-and-pitchforks crowd would have done after the 2010-11 season if Fisher had retired due to not getting HCIW implemented?
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Post by gigglyforshrigley on Feb 7, 2019 8:50:42 GMT -8
Do you think Dutcher has been HC long enough to truly evaluate him? Don't worry about it, you're responding to a johnny-come-lately fraud. Dutcher was made HCIW in 2011; dude didn't join the board until 2013. Dude didn't mention ANYTHING about doubts about HCIW until 2017, well after it was too late to do anything about it. People just don't want to accept that the HCIW concept bought us five or so more years of Steve Fisher and temporary protection against negative recruiting. I'll gladly take that; even with pure 20/20 foresight that we have to burn it down and start over if Dutcher fails. To put it another way, could you imagine what the torches-and-pitchforks crowd would have done after the 2010-11 season if Fisher had retired due to not getting HICW implemented? Was that the ultimatum that was presented to us?
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Post by legkick on Feb 7, 2019 9:03:44 GMT -8
Was that the ultimatum that was presented to us? Explicitly no. Implicitly, of course and it should have been obvious to everyone here. If anyone here "thinks" that Fisher's success didn't give him tremendous leverage over the program, well, I would be glad to know so that I could never take them seriously again. Though Fisher was the face of the program, he once called Dutcher “invaluable.”
“He has been a non-head coach only in name,” Fisher said in 2011, when Dutcher was designated his successor. “Over the years we’ve been here, he’s done everything that a head coach could do, should do, and would do.”
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Post by AzTex on Feb 7, 2019 10:10:07 GMT -8
Can we PLEASE stop dumping on Fred Trenkle!!!!! The man was a good coach. Maybe not great, but good. He took over what was probably the worst D1 college BB program in the country. SDSU was not able to recruit a full roster of decent D1 players, as we saw when Fisher cleaned house after his first season here. (Which, as I recall, was dreadful, with NO conference wins.) No wonder Trenkle was unable to turn this program around. Let's remember that he was able to post one winning season (though barely). Dutch has taken over a team with ever so much better talent than the one that greeted Fred Trenkle. AzWm what makes you think he was a good coach? Because he was animated on the sideline? He couldn't recruit, his teams weren't any good, he hasn't had any head coaching opportunities since, etc. There is nothing to merit him being considered a good coachExcept for the fact that Trenkle was 329-34 from 1983 to 1993 at the College of Southern Idaho, which reached the national JC tournament eight consecutive seasons and won it in 1987.
I'm not sure why he couldn't be successful here, but the above record would indicate he was a good coach.
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Post by gigglyforshrigley on Feb 7, 2019 10:39:14 GMT -8
what makes you think he was a good coach? Because he was animated on the sideline? He couldn't recruit, his teams weren't any good, he hasn't had any head coaching opportunities since, etc. There is nothing to merit him being considered a good coachExcept for the fact that Trenkle was 329-34 from 1983 to 1993 at the College of Southern Idaho, which reached the national JC tournament eight consecutive seasons and won it in 1987.
I'm not sure why he couldn't be successful here, but the above record would indicate he was a good coach.
I didn't know that, but still it's obviously relative to the level you're coaching. In D1 college basketball it's been shown that he wasn't a good coach. Doesn't mean that he doesn't know the game or that he's a bad coach if moved to lower levels... he just wasn't proven to be a good D1 coach
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Post by AzTex on Feb 7, 2019 11:29:18 GMT -8
Except for the fact that Trenkle was 329-34 from 1983 to 1993 at the College of Southern Idaho, which reached the national JC tournament eight consecutive seasons and won it in 1987.
I'm not sure why he couldn't be successful here, but the above record would indicate he was a good coach.
I didn't know that, but still it's obviously relative to the level you're coaching. In D1 college basketball it's been shown that he wasn't a good coach. Doesn't mean that he doesn't know the game or that he's a bad coach if moved to lower levels... he just wasn't proven to be a good D1 coach That's one of the "benefits" of having been around since the early 60's. I've seen and experienced a lot of Aztec history.
I don't think the problem was the difference in the level between JC and D1. True, he was coaching against JC level players, but his players were also only JC level players. The difference between his record and the record of other JC coaches had to be coaching ability.
I have never understood his lack of success here because of that and I'm not trying to defend his record here. The same problem occurred with Jim Brandenburg. He had a great record with Wyoming, but zero success here. You can't say he wasn't a good D1 coach. He proved he was at Wyoming, but failed here. Another of the great Aztec coaching mysteries.
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Post by Frantic on Feb 7, 2019 11:35:16 GMT -8
I didn't know that, but still it's obviously relative to the level you're coaching. In D1 college basketball it's been shown that he wasn't a good coach. Doesn't mean that he doesn't know the game or that he's a bad coach if moved to lower levels... he just wasn't proven to be a good D1 coach That's one of the "benefits" of having been around since the early 60's. I've seen and experienced a lot of Aztec history. I don't think the problem was the difference in the level between JC and D1. True, he was coaching against JC level players, but his players were also only JC level players. The difference between his record and the record of other JC coaches had to be coaching ability. I have never understood his lack of success here because of that and I'm not trying to defend his record here. The same problem occurred with Jim Brandenburg. He had a great record with Wyoming, but zero success here. You can't say he wasn't a good D1 coach. He proved he was at Wyoming, but failed here. Another of the great Aztec coaching mysteries. Circumstances have alot to do with it. Peterson Gym, lack of support, a long history of failure, a totally bare cupboard, etc. Jim Brandenberg took Wyoming to the Sweet 16 and the NIT finals in the two years before coming to SDSU. At Wyoming! Even Bill Belichick was fired by Cleveland for poor performance.
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Post by AzTex on Feb 7, 2019 12:22:43 GMT -8
That's one of the "benefits" of having been around since the early 60's. I've seen and experienced a lot of Aztec history. I don't think the problem was the difference in the level between JC and D1. True, he was coaching against JC level players, but his players were also only JC level players. The difference between his record and the record of other JC coaches had to be coaching ability. I have never understood his lack of success here because of that and I'm not trying to defend his record here. The same problem occurred with Jim Brandenburg. He had a great record with Wyoming, but zero success here. You can't say he wasn't a good D1 coach. He proved he was at Wyoming, but failed here. Another of the great Aztec coaching mysteries. Circumstances have alot to do with it. Peterson Gym, lack of support, a long history of failure, a totally bare cupboard, etc. Jim Brandenberg took Wyoming to the Sweet 16 and the NIT finals in the two years before coming to SDSU. At Wyoming! Even Bill Belichick was fired by Cleveland for poor performance. Yep. You see it all the time. A successful coach at one place is unable to duplicate that success at another. I think it happens in lots of other professions as well.
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Post by aztech on Feb 7, 2019 12:52:11 GMT -8
what makes you think he was a good coach? Because he was animated on the sideline? He couldn't recruit, his teams weren't any good, he hasn't had any head coaching opportunities since, etc. There is nothing to merit him being considered a good coachExcept for the fact that Trenkle was 329-34 from 1983 to 1993 at the College of Southern Idaho, which reached the national JC tournament eight consecutive seasons and won it in 1987. I'm not sure why he couldn't be successful here, but the above record would indicate he was a good coach.
From what I recall, the infamous Rick Bay limited Trenkle's recruiting territory due to budget cuts. He was destined to fail.
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Post by AccessBowlTime on Feb 7, 2019 13:24:16 GMT -8
My prognostication is our chances in the Mountain West tournament will be much clearer in 16 days when we play at UNLV. As others have said, the Aztecs have played well in that arena over the years and the Rebels aren't exactly world beaters this year either. It can be anticipated that we will be coming off a double-digit loss three days earlier to Nevada so may be emotionally down but if we overcome that and win on February 23, we should finish above UNLV in the regular season standings and not have to play the Wolf Pack until our second game of the tournament. Beating them then would be very surprising but at least by that point we should have qualified for the NIT and a berth in that tournament may bode well for our returning players in 2019-20.
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Post by legkick on Feb 7, 2019 13:35:45 GMT -8
My prognostication is our chances in the Mountain West tournament will be much clearer in 16 days when we play at UNLV. As others have said, the Aztecs have played well in that arena over the years and the Rebels aren't exactly world beaters this year either. It can be anticipated that we will be coming off a double-digit loss three days earlier to Nevada so may be emotionally down but if we overcome that and win on February 23, we should finish above UNLV in the regular season standings and not have to play the Wolf Pack until our second game of the tournament. Beating them then would be very surprising but at least by that point we should have qualified for the NIT and a berth in that tournament may bode well for our returning players in 2019-20. Given the way the NIT currently operates, I don't think we will qualify for it. For non-P5s, you pretty much need to be the regular season champion that doesn't get an NCAA birth, very few exceptions now. Everything has been tilted in favor of the P5s (most importantly at large bids in the NCAA tournament). Last year, despite the P5s getting the vast majority of the NCAA at-larges, they also got 17 of the 32 NIT berths. The Aztecs NET and other metrics just don't figure to improve enough. fwiw, I'd rather play Nevada in the semifinals than the finals, just like you, so 4/5 line or bust.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 13:45:14 GMT -8
My prognostication is our chances in the Mountain West tournament will be much clearer in 16 days when we play at UNLV. As others have said, the Aztecs have played well in that arena over the years and the Rebels aren't exactly world beaters this year either. It can be anticipated that we will be coming off a double-digit loss three days earlier to Nevada so may be emotionally down but if we overcome that and win on February 23, we should finish above UNLV in the regular season standings and not have to play the Wolf Pack until our second game of the tournament. Beating them then would be very surprising but at least by that point we should have qualified for the NIT and a berth in that tournament may bode well for our returning players in 2019-20. Given the way the NIT currently operates, I don't think we will qualify for it. For non-P5s, you pretty much need to be the regular season champion that doesn't get an NCAA birth, very few exceptions now. Everything has been tilted in favor of the P5s (most importantly at large bids in the NCAA tournament). The Aztecs NET and other metrics just don't figure to improve enough. fwiw, I'd rather play Nevada in the semifinals than the finals, just like you, so 4/5 line or bust. Why would the NIT choose the Aztecs over all of the power conference also rans AND the 2nd and 3rd place mid major teams? We aren’t going to any postseason tournaments without winning the MW tourney
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Post by AccessBowlTime on Feb 7, 2019 14:01:37 GMT -8
Given the way the NIT currently operates, I don't think we will qualify for it. For non-P5s, you pretty much need to be the regular season champion that doesn't get an NCAA birth, very few exceptions now. Everything has been tilted in favor of the P5s (most importantly at large bids in the NCAA tournament). The Aztecs NET and other metrics just don't figure to improve enough. fwiw, I'd rather play Nevada in the semifinals than the finals, just like you, so 4/5 line or bust. Why would the NIT choose the Aztecs over all of the power conference also rans AND the 2nd and 3rd place mid major teams? We aren’t going to any postseason tournaments without winning the MW tourney It's been awhile but we've gone to the NIT before although apparently contrary to you, I follow football more than basketball, hence my moniker. In any event, if we can't win the Mountain West tournament, I don't particularly care about the NIT, I would just like to see us go to some post-season tournament so our younger guys can get some additional playing time in preparation for coming seasons.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 14:22:38 GMT -8
Why would the NIT choose the Aztecs over all of the power conference also rans AND the 2nd and 3rd place mid major teams? We aren’t going to any postseason tournaments without winning the MW tourney It's been awhile but we've gone to the NIT before although apparently contrary to you, I follow football more than basketball, hence my moniker. In any event, if we can't win the Mountain West tournament, I don't particularly care about the NIT, I would just like to see us go to some post-season tournament so our younger guys can get some additional playing time in preparation for coming seasons. I would guess that every AM poster feels the same way. A much larger percentage of football teams qualify for he post season than do basketball teams. Unfortunately, 2/3s of the season is in the rear view and the toughest part of the conference season is still to come. At this point, I am just watching for improvement in the players likely to return next year. The coaches are going to earn their stripes in the coming months. As Zeigler mentioned in his article yesterday, we could be in for a really rough time next year.
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Post by legkick on Feb 7, 2019 14:29:48 GMT -8
It's been awhile but we've gone to the NIT before although apparently contrary to you, I follow football more than basketball, hence my moniker. In any event, if we can't win the Mountain West tournament, I don't particularly care about the NIT, I would just like to see us go to some post-season tournament so our younger guys can get some additional playing time in preparation for coming seasons. I see the troll has responded to me, but since I can't see his posts normally, and he just craps on the team, here's some more info . . . It's going to be tough for the Aztecs to get an invite into any 2019 tournament if they keep playing this way. If they pick it up a lot, and that probably requires a 2nd or 3rd place finish and getting to the finals of the MWCT, they could raise their profile enough to get a bid to the NIT, CBI or CIT, but teams with the Aztecs' historical profile do sometimes refuse bids to the CBI and CIT. USD played in the CIT last year.
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Post by fatfreddy on Feb 7, 2019 15:25:34 GMT -8
This team is not winning the conference tournament. Sorry to say. Maybe if the tournament was being held at Viejas, but this team away from home is complete trash. Rally the troops to Vegas! Loud fans won’t hurt! It’s a fun fun time! The quality has dropped but the fun remains. It’s more fun the more rowdy & more fans!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 15:32:16 GMT -8
It's been awhile but we've gone to the NIT before although apparently contrary to you, I follow football more than basketball, hence my moniker. In any event, if we can't win the Mountain West tournament, I don't particularly care about the NIT, I would just like to see us go to some post-season tournament so our younger guys can get some additional playing time in preparation for coming seasons. I see the troll has responded to me, but since I can't see his posts normally, and he just craps on the team, here's some more info . . . It's going to be tough for the Aztecs to get an invite into any 2019 tournament if they keep playing this way. If they pick it up a lot, and that probably requires a 2nd or 3rd place finish and getting to the finals of the MWCT, they could raise their profile enough to get a bid to the NIT, CBI or CIT, but teams with the Aztecs' historical profile do sometimes refuse bids to the CBI and CIT. USD played in the CIT last year. It’s weird that your feathers have been ruffled to the point that you’ve been “forced” to block me but can’t stop referencing me. You and the emperors clothes contingent can’t bear to read comments that aren’t delusionally positive. Nor are you able to see that our posts are in agreement.
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