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Post by tonatiuh on Sept 4, 2018 16:02:00 GMT -8
You may have noticed that Colin Kaepernick just recently signed a contract with Nike. Why, I don't know since he no longer performs for any NFL team in
the country. He definitely is not a big star either.
I understand that he had a legitimate beef with certain municipalities and their police forces, and the country in general with the handling of non-white
suspects, and their attitude toward them in many cases.
He does have a right to protest, and it is a concern of many people in the U.S. The trouble is he selected the wrong place & item to voice his disapproval.
The correct place for him & others to protest is not while you are playing a game in a stadium (for which you are being paid), and not against the American
flag which everyone no matter how you feel (politically) should honor at all times. His protest should be against those police forces in the various cities,
or the municipalities which run those police departments. It should be on the street, or in front of their buildings. And, he should do it on his own time,
not during a football game or any athletic event which is not your own time. The fans do not want to see that they want to see the contest being played.
Now, Nike in their infinite wisdom seems to think he should get a contract to help support him. Did they really think clearly on this first? I know many
people protested Nike's decision on this. I know they think they are supporting a protestor who has a legitimate right to question something which is
really a problem in this country. But, they too are not thinking clearly on this because of the way the protest is being handled. He would get more positive
action and support if he was protesting at the right places. What Colin is doing will not bring any support, or sympathy from many. He is only shooting him
self in the foot. If, he took his protest to a military base where those who have fought to protect our flag & freedoms he would probably get thrown
out on his ear. Poor Colin & Nike need to mature, and understand what they are really doing. You don't disregard the flag and national anthem.
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Post by azteccc on Sept 4, 2018 22:16:00 GMT -8
You may have noticed that Colin Kaepernick just recently signed a contract with Nike. Why, I don't know since he no longer performs for any NFL team in the country. He definitely is not a big star either. I understand that he had a legitimate beef with certain municipalities and their police forces, and the country in general with the handling of non-white suspects, and their attitude toward them in many cases. He does have a right to protest, and it is a concern of many people in the U.S. The trouble is he selected the wrong place & item to voice his disapproval. The correct place for him & others to protest is not while you are playing a game in a stadium (for which you are being paid), and not against the American flag which everyone no matter how you feel (politically) should honor at all times. His protest should be against those police forces in the various cities, or the municipalities which run those police departments. It should be on the street, or in front of their buildings. And, he should do it on his own time, not during a football game or any athletic event which is not your own time. The fans do not want to see that they want to see the contest being played. Now, Nike in their infinite wisdom seems to think he should get a contract to help support him. Did they really think clearly on this first? I know many people protested Nike's decision on this. I know they think they are supporting a protestor who has a legitimate right to question something which is really a problem in this country. But, they too are not thinking clearly on this because of the way the protest is being handled. He would get more positive action and support if he was protesting at the right places. What Colin is doing will not bring any support, or sympathy from many. He is only shooting him self in the foot. If, he took his protest to a military base where those who have fought to protect our flag & freedoms he would probably get thrown out on his ear. Poor Colin & Nike need to mature, and understand what they are really doing. You don't disregard the flag and national anthem. (1) Nike sponsored Kaepernick while he was a member of the 49ers, and it has been reported that the deal was never terminated. This is a new advertising campaign with likely updated contract terms. (2) Artiwara Kongmalai, a Thai rock star, is sponsored by Nike. Michael Jordan hasn't performed for any NBA or MLB team in well over a decade. Lebron James and Christiano Ronaldo will be sponsored by Nike until the day they die. (3) Kaepernick never singled out a municipality or a police force. (4) Whether or not there is "trouble" in the place and time he chose to "voice his disapproval" is not determined by anyone but him, knowing in advance and in retrospect the consequences of that decision with a willingness to accept them. (5) It is nothing more than your opinion that the American flag "should be honored at all times". An opinion shared by many/most Americans, but an opinion nonetheless. (6) NFL players stayed in the locker room for the national anthem until 2009. The 2017 NFL Player's Rule Book does not mention the flag or the anthem at all, and there are no player directives for what they should/should not do. In fact, in 2016 the NFL said ""Players are encouraged but not required to stand during the playing of the national anthem". (7) The US Department of Defense is largely to blame for paid patriotism, paying sports leagues ~$2 million per year to "organize displays of national pride including flag presentations, the honoring of military members, reenlistment ceremonies, and surprise military homecomings." (8) There are endless (really, just use Google) examples of veterans and current military members supporting the protest, and even more supporting his right to protest. (9) Do you have similar issues worthy of consternation and rhetoric with every other NFL player who currently has an endorsement deal and doesn’t act how you want them to act for about two minutes before each game? If not, why do you think you are focusing on only one? (10) Nike stock dipped 3% today but is already trading back up in afterhours. OppenheimerFunds, manager of a quarter billion dollars of funds in 13 million investor accounts, told Bloomberg the campaign would work in Nike's favor. In two days, Nike received $43 million in media exposure on a deal likely worth about $1 million per year. (11) In 2016 when the protests began, Kaepernick jerseys shot up from 33rd most retailed, to 7th most retailed. (12) Gotta love capitalism, right? |
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Sept 5, 2018 9:25:45 GMT -8
You may have noticed that Colin Kaepernick just recently signed a contract with Nike. Why, I don't know since he no longer performs for any NFL team in the country. He definitely is not a big star either. I understand that he had a legitimate beef with certain municipalities and their police forces, and the country in general with the handling of non-white suspects, and their attitude toward them in many cases. He does have a right to protest, and it is a concern of many people in the U.S. The trouble is he selected the wrong place & item to voice his disapproval. The correct place for him & others to protest is not while you are playing a game in a stadium (for which you are being paid), and not against the American flag which everyone no matter how you feel (politically) should honor at all times. His protest should be against those police forces in the various cities, or the municipalities which run those police departments. It should be on the street, or in front of their buildings. And, he should do it on his own time, not during a football game or any athletic event which is not your own time. The fans do not want to see that they want to see the contest being played. Now, Nike in their infinite wisdom seems to think he should get a contract to help support him. Did they really think clearly on this first? I know many people protested Nike's decision on this. I know they think they are supporting a protestor who has a legitimate right to question something which is really a problem in this country. But, they too are not thinking clearly on this because of the way the protest is being handled. He would get more positive action and support if he was protesting at the right places. What Colin is doing will not bring any support, or sympathy from many. He is only shooting him self in the foot. If, he took his protest to a military base where those who have fought to protect our flag & freedoms he would probably get thrown out on his ear. Poor Colin & Nike need to mature, and understand what they are really doing. You don't disregard the flag and national anthem. As one who has served his country I disagree with you on many points.
Kneeling during the national anthem is not disrespect. If it is then Joe Sixpack in the stands should also be "thrown out on his ear" because he uses that opportunity to go get another beer or doesn't stand up from his seat.
In my opinion we disrespect the flag and national anthem by trotting them out on any minor occasion. This marginalizes both the flag and our national anthem.
Would I prefer that he stand with his hand over his heart? Yes. Same thing goes for Joe Sixpack. However, his right to protest is what was actually fought for.
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Post by gamer2101 on Sept 5, 2018 10:45:37 GMT -8
Who are you to tell someone when, where or how to protest in a free country?
The fact that a human being can look past unjust killings, violations of human rights and abuse of power just to nam a few, then say "whatever you do, do disrespect our flag!!" Is beyond me. People how dumb is that. C'mon man
written with disappearing ink
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Post by ptsdthor on Sept 5, 2018 14:28:11 GMT -8
In the USA, one is free to "suggest" anything to anyone. If that is "to tell someone", then the answer is that we ALL are the ones who can tell someone "when, where or how to protest". And, of course, they don't have to heed that suggestion but it is entirely reasonable to let someone know what you think of their protest, how they are protesting, if it is effective or harmful to their ends, etc.
The list of things that bother citizens of the USA is as long as a phone book. Police brutality or profiling is one of a thousand things I would like to have changed. The idea that someone is "looking past" a particular person's pet peeve by wanting respect for the flag when it is specifically being disrespected is ludicrous. You do understand that someone can want justice relative to police brutality or profiling while at the same time like to have the US flag respected, don't you?
Protesters effectively "pick a fight" with those they are protesting against. In the case of Kaepernick et al, they like to say they are protesting abuses by the police but they are actually picking a fight with no one other than those that like to have their flag respected. Their protest is not directed against a particular police department, a particular law, etc. It is misguided.
Say that I wanted to bring awareness to the evils of deficit spending or the evils of Abortion and I go into a football stadium wearing a brown shirted NAZI uniform and gave out one arm salutes as my protest. No one there would believe me or see that it was a legitimate protest against deficit spending or Abortion. The symbolism does not align to the issues at hand, the symbolism insults many, etc. Yes, it would perhaps be my right to do that and it might even generate a significant amount of publicity. Would it be effective and relevant? Not in the least.
In this case, the protesters are picking a fight with those that like their flag respected. In so doing, they are also saying that those who do not want their flag disrespected are effectively the supporters/perpetrators of police brutality and profiling. Nothing makes friends and influences people like implied false accusations.
Alas, the NFL is bound by the Constitution to let the protester's idiocy continue. Some of the Joe Sixpacks out there know that they are the wrongful butt of the protest and don't much like it. So they choose to ignore it, turn off the game/TV, blast the protestors as unAmerican, etc. Very predictable.
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Post by 84aztec96 on Sept 5, 2018 19:57:13 GMT -8
(6) NFL players stayed in the locker room for the national anthem until 2009. The 2017 NFL Player's Rule Book does not mention the flag or the anthem at all, and there are no player directives for what they should/should not do. In fact, in 2016 the NFL said ""Players are encouraged but not required to stand during the playing of the national anthem". Read more: aztecmesa.proboards.com/thread/58111/opinion-on-kaepernick-nike#ixzz5QI3k2ZidJust for clarity, that is not true. (That players stayed in the locker room during the national anthem until 2009) |
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Post by azteccc on Sept 5, 2018 21:36:28 GMT -8
In the USA, one is free to "suggest" anything to anyone. If that is "to tell someone", then the answer is that we ALL are the ones who can tell someone "when, where or how to protest". And, of course, they don't have to heed that suggestion but it is entirely reasonable to let someone know what you think of their protest, how they are protesting, if it is effective or harmful to their ends, etc. The list of things that bother citizens of the USA is as long as a phone book. Police brutality or profiling is one of a thousand things I would like to have changed. The idea that someone is "looking past" a particular person's pet peeve by wanting respect for the flag when it is specifically being disrespected is ludicrous. You do understand that someone can want justice relative to police brutality or profiling while at the same time like to have the US flag respected, don't you? Protesters effectively "pick a fight" with those they are protesting against. In the case of Kaepernick et al, they like to say they are protesting abuses by the police but they are actually picking a fight with no one other than those that like to have their flag respected. Their protest is not directed against a particular police department, a particular law, etc. It is misguided. Say that I wanted to bring awareness to the evils of deficit spending or the evils of Abortion and I go into a football stadium wearing a brown shirted NAZI uniform and gave out one arm salutes as my protest. No one there would believe me or see that it was a legitimate protest against deficit spending or Abortion. The symbolism does not align to the issues at hand, the symbolism insults many, etc. Yes, it would perhaps be my right to do that and it might even generate a significant amount of publicity. Would it be effective and relevant? Not in the least. In this case, the protesters are picking a fight with those that like their flag respected. In so doing, they are also saying that those who do not want their flag disrespected are effectively the supporters/perpetrators of police brutality and profiling. Nothing makes friends and influences people like implied false accusations. Alas, the NFL is bound by the Constitution to let the protester's idiocy continue. Some of the Joe Sixpacks out there know that they are the wrongful butt of the protest and don't much like it. So they choose to ignore it, turn off the game/TV, blast the protestors as unAmerican, etc. Very predictable. Just about everything in this in incorrect. |
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Post by ptsdthor on Sept 5, 2018 21:58:14 GMT -8
In the USA, one is free to "suggest" anything to anyone. If that is "to tell someone", then the answer is that we ALL are the ones who can tell someone "when, where or how to protest". And, of course, they don't have to heed that suggestion but it is entirely reasonable to let someone know what you think of their protest, how they are protesting, if it is effective or harmful to their ends, etc. The list of things that bother citizens of the USA is as long as a phone book. Police brutality or profiling is one of a thousand things I would like to have changed. The idea that someone is "looking past" a particular person's pet peeve by wanting respect for the flag when it is specifically being disrespected is ludicrous. You do understand that someone can want justice relative to police brutality or profiling while at the same time like to have the US flag respected, don't you? Protesters effectively "pick a fight" with those they are protesting against. In the case of Kaepernick et al, they like to say they are protesting abuses by the police but they are actually picking a fight with no one other than those that like to have their flag respected. Their protest is not directed against a particular police department, a particular law, etc. It is misguided. Say that I wanted to bring awareness to the evils of deficit spending or the evils of Abortion and I go into a football stadium wearing a brown shirted NAZI uniform and gave out one arm salutes as my protest. No one there would believe me or see that it was a legitimate protest against deficit spending or Abortion. The symbolism does not align to the issues at hand, the symbolism insults many, etc. Yes, it would perhaps be my right to do that and it might even generate a significant amount of publicity. Would it be effective and relevant? Not in the least. In this case, the protesters are picking a fight with those that like their flag respected. In so doing, they are also saying that those who do not want their flag disrespected are effectively the supporters/perpetrators of police brutality and profiling. Nothing makes friends and influences people like implied false accusations. Alas, the NFL is bound by the Constitution to let the protester's idiocy continue. Some of the Joe Sixpacks out there know that they are the wrongful butt of the protest and don't much like it. So they choose to ignore it, turn off the game/TV, blast the protestors as unAmerican, etc. Very predictable. Just about everything in this in incorrect. Lol. High praise indeed! Thanks |
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Post by uwphoto on Sept 6, 2018 10:13:20 GMT -8
So Nike obviously thought strategically about this and knows they will come out ahead. So some throwbacks burn their Nike's on Youtube?... big deal. What shoes are they going to go to to protest? How bout the most red-blooded American sports shoes of all time.. Converse / Chuck Taylor? Oops, Nike owns them and they are made in Asia. How bout Adidas? Oops the Right hates Merkel and Germany, plus those are made in Asia as well. It's like when the Right wants to boycott Hollywood and Music. So if you can't listen to the Stones, Tom Petty, Pearl jam, Springsteen and on and on and on.. who are you going to listen to?? I know, Ted Nugent and Charley Daniels.... SAD.
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Post by azteccc on Sept 6, 2018 11:18:00 GMT -8
Old white Trumpers ruined my favorite SDSU shirt and that’s pretty much my main beef. Nike just swooped in to make it hypocritical and 100% unwearable.  |
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Post by tonatiuh on Sept 6, 2018 13:58:50 GMT -8
All right, I can see by many posts here I need to clear up a few things.
azteccc, you stated in your post on (5)"It is nothing more than your opinion That the American flag 'should be honored at all times'. An opinion shared by
many/most Americans, but an opinion nonetheless." You are right it is my opinion, and I soitenly put that in the title of this thread, but it appears as
though some people here (gamer2101 for sure!) forgot that or did not pay attention. I don't know about anyone else, but I was brought up by school and
my parents to honor the American flag and the National Anthem at all times.
Why gamer2101, did you say that I was looking "past unjust killing, violations of human rights and abuse of power..." & then say "whatever you do, do
disrespect our flag!!" (didn't exactly make sense how you wrote it, but I understand what you were trying to say). Did you read and understand what I wrote?
What does the 5th line say at the beginning of the third paragraph?
Plus, I was not trying to tell him how & where to protest only making the suggestion (remember/my opinion) because I felt it would be more effective that way.
I do support his right to protest completely. Don't get me wrong on that!
Yes, Kaepernick did not single out any particular police force or municipality (town) to take his protest to. And, I was asking why not since they were
the ones responsible for the violations which occured?
Now No. (7) on your response I did not understand at all (azteccc). So, what is wrong with the U.S. Department of Defense promoting national pride at
sporting events? We may need more.
Thank you all for your comments, and even though we do have differences of opinion we will just have to agree to disagree. Take care.
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Post by azson on Sept 6, 2018 14:49:23 GMT -8
All right, I can see by many posts here I need to clear up a few things. azteccc, you stated in your post on (5)"It is nothing more than your opinion That the American flag 'should be honored at all times'. An opinion shared by many/most Americans, but an opinion nonetheless." You are right it is my opinion, and I soitenly put that in the title of this thread, but it appears as though some people here (gamer2101 for sure!) forgot that or did not pay attention. I don't know about anyone else, but I was brought up by school and my parents to honor the American flag and the National Anthem at all times. Why gamer2101, did you say that I was looking "past unjust killing, violations of human rights and abuse of power..." & then say "whatever you do, do disrespect our flag!!" (didn't exactly make sense how you wrote it, but I understand what you were trying to say). Did you read and understand what I wrote? What does the 5th line say at the beginning of the third paragraph? Plus, I was not trying to tell him how & where to protest only making the suggestion (remember/my opinion) because I felt it would be more effective that way. I do support his right to protest completely. Don't get me wrong on that! Yes, Kaepernick did not single out any particular police force or municipality (town) to take his protest to. And, I was asking why not since they were the ones responsible for the violations which occured? Now No. (7) on your response I did not understand at all (azteccc). So, what is wrong with the U.S. Department of Defense promoting national pride at
sporting events? We may need more. Thank you all for your comments, and even though we do have differences of opinion we will just have to agree to disagree. Take care. |
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Post by azteccc on Sept 13, 2018 8:02:53 GMT -8
Yesterday, Nike/NKE closed at $83/share, an all-time high for the company.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2018 10:08:02 GMT -8
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