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Post by northcountymike on Jul 12, 2017 11:32:55 GMT -8
We'll both know if he's good enough if and when he makes a team...and that's entirely my point. He hasn't been good enough in recent years and he won't be until he makes a team. That's not incorrect, as much as you hate it. You were doing so good until you made that last definitive statement. Being good enough is a state of being. That state of being doesn't change simply because you prove it. It is either true or false before the test. It is not false and then suddenly become true when proven. So you're saying that if he doesn't make a team it's because he is good enough? Got it. Being "good" and being "good enough" are two different things. In this case, Jamaal's plenty good, he just hasn't proven that he's good enough to make it in the NBA. Being good enough for the NBA is valid and it's the only measuring stick I'm using here. I don't make the "rules" in this case - the NBA does. That's not a state of being at all. But, if it makes you feel better for disagreeing with me simply because you have to stand by your man, then, by all means, stand by him.
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 12, 2017 12:55:47 GMT -8
Get over yourself. I'm not anywhere close to hoping you say something to me. Incredible. You say he "still" is not close to being NBA ready as if you've seen him play lately. That's my beef. He's on an NBA summer league team and he has a chance. The poster you responded to previously stated that he's improved and you said and he's still not good enough. How do you know until the cuts have been made this year, Nostradamus? Get over myself? Haha. Do I need to keep repeating this? He's "still not good enough" until he makes it on a team. Then, he'll be good enough. If he were good enough, he'd find a way to get on a team. Got it? I'm not predicting anything here - all I'm saying is until he proves himself, he's not good enough, period. That's not me being a jerk; that's just a simple fact about him and every other player trying to make a team. Calm down. He may have improved, yes. But, I guess we'll see if he lands on a team and if he lasts longer than a home series. If he does, then he's probably good enough. I get it that you're the type of guy that would say "still" not good enough in this case, instead of saying, " let's see if he's improved enough to make it and stay. How can you use that word when the summer league just started? Saying "still" is implying that he's been cut already. It's a fact statement on your part, but I'm not shocked coming from you. Poor choice of words in this regard. Admit it.
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Post by northcountymike on Jul 12, 2017 13:38:43 GMT -8
Get over myself? Haha. Do I need to keep repeating this? He's "still not good enough" until he makes it on a team. Then, he'll be good enough. If he were good enough, he'd find a way to get on a team. Got it? I'm not predicting anything here - all I'm saying is until he proves himself, he's not good enough, period. That's not me being a jerk; that's just a simple fact about him and every other player trying to make a team. Calm down. He may have improved, yes. But, I guess we'll see if he lands on a team and if he lasts longer than a home series. If he does, then he's probably good enough. I get it that you're the type of guy that would say "still" not good enough in this case, instead of saying, " let's see if he's improved enough to make it and stay. How can you use that word when the summer league just started? Saying "still" is implying that he's been cut already. It's a fact statement on your part, but I'm not shocked coming from you. Poor choice of words in this regard. Admit it. What I imply and what you infer are two entirely different things. Again, I'm not predicting anything, rather just stating the history. But, it seems that you're dead set that I am because you don't like my choice of words. To each his own I suppose.
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Post by sdcoug on Jul 12, 2017 13:51:17 GMT -8
You were doing so good until you made that last definitive statement. Being good enough is a state of being. That state of being doesn't change simply because you prove it. It is either true or false before the test. It is not false and then suddenly become true when proven. So you're saying that if he doesn't make a team it's because he is good enough? Got it. Being "good" and being "good enough" are two different things. In this case, Jamaal's plenty good, he just hasn't proven that he's good enough to make it in the NBA. Being good enough for the NBA is valid and it's the only measuring stick I'm using here. I don't make the "rules" in this case - the NBA does. That's not a state of being at all. But, if it makes you feel better for disagreeing with me simply because you have to stand by your man, then, by all means, stand by him. This isn't HS where you either make the team or you don't. There are several players who are "good enough" to play in the NBA but choose to play in EU/CH, etc. due to a variety of reasons (more money, guaranteed multi-year contract, prefer to play big minutes, etc.). You're assuming he's not "good enough" for the NBA. Since we don't know if he's been offered & turned down NBA contracts, the only thing we know is he chose to play in CH the last couple years & excelled. I agree that for most mid-tier players it's probably a safe assumption they're not "good enough" for the NBA, but for standouts in their own league that's inaccurate. Players #10-15 on a NBA roster are virtually interchangeable with the top G-league and top international talent. At that point it's typically more about opportunity, fit, cap space, lifestyle, finances, etc. which separates someone from a NBA roster & playing elsewhere. I don't think there's any doubt Franklin is very "good". Whether he's "good enough" is unknown unless you're privy to discussions between NBA execs, International execs, his agent & him. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Jamaal has had NBA opportunities but instead of being an 9th or 10th man or bouncing between the G-League and the NBA he's decided to thrive elsewhere on a great contract. Is Quinn Cook a better player than Franklin because he's chosen to stay stateside but make less & play less, yet played in the NBA last year? Joe Young is another good comparison. Basically made the same money as Franklin, but only played in about half the games & only played around 6-9 minutes per when he did with the Pacers. You can't convince me Young is better than Franklin, nor that Franklin isn't "good enough" to do the same if he chose to. Unless you're privy to those conversations there's no way to prove otherwise. Saying a top player in an international league, especially one who's had a cup of coffee in the league, isn't "good enough" to play in the NBA is a giant stretch. It is probably safe to say he's not "good enough" to excel in the NBA because if he was some NBA exec would make sure their option is way better than any international option, assuming they have cap room to do so.
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Post by AztecBill on Jul 12, 2017 14:08:15 GMT -8
You were doing so good until you made that last definitive statement. Being good enough is a state of being. That state of being doesn't change simply because you prove it. It is either true or false before the test. It is not false and then suddenly become true when proven. So you're saying that if he doesn't make a team it's because he is good enough? Got it. Being "good" and being "good enough" are two different things. In this case, Jamaal's plenty good, he just hasn't proven that he's good enough to make it in the NBA. Being good enough for the NBA is valid and it's the only measuring stick I'm using here. I don't make the "rules" in this case - the NBA does. That's not a state of being at all. But, if it makes you feel better for disagreeing with me simply because you have to stand by your man, then, by all means, stand by him. "Just hasn't proven". Now you got it.
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Post by northcountymike on Jul 12, 2017 14:32:24 GMT -8
So you're saying that if he doesn't make a team it's because he is good enough? Got it. Being "good" and being "good enough" are two different things. In this case, Jamaal's plenty good, he just hasn't proven that he's good enough to make it in the NBA. Being good enough for the NBA is valid and it's the only measuring stick I'm using here. I don't make the "rules" in this case - the NBA does. That's not a state of being at all. But, if it makes you feel better for disagreeing with me simply because you have to stand by your man, then, by all means, stand by him. This isn't HS where you either make the team or you don't. There are several players who are "good enough" to play in the NBA but choose to play in EU/CH, etc. due to a variety of reasons (more money, guaranteed multi-year contract, prefer to play big minutes, etc.). You're assuming he's not "good enough" for the NBA. Since we don't know if he's been offered & turned down NBA contracts, the only thing we know is he chose to play in CH the last couple years & excelled. I agree that for most mid-tier players it's probably a safe assumption they're not "good enough" for the NBA, but for standouts in their own league that's inaccurate. Players #10-15 on a NBA roster are virtually interchangeable with the top G-league and top international talent. At that point it's typically more about opportunity, fit, cap space, lifestyle, finances, etc. which separates someone from a NBA roster & playing elsewhere. I don't think there's any doubt Franklin is very "good". Whether he's "good enough" is unknown unless you're privy to discussions between NBA execs, International execs, his agent & him. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Jamaal has had NBA opportunities but instead of being an 9th or 10th man or bouncing between the G-League and the NBA he's decided to thrive elsewhere on a great contract. Is Quinn Cook a better player than Franklin because he's chosen to stay stateside but make less & play less, yet played in the NBA last year? Joe Young is another good comparison. Basically made the same money as Franklin, but only played in about half the games & only played around 6-9 minutes per when he did with the Pacers. You can't convince me Young is better than Franklin, nor that Franklin isn't "good enough" to do the same if he chose to. Unless you're privy to those conversations there's no way to prove otherwise. Saying a top player in an international league, especially one who's had a cup of coffee in the league, isn't "good enough" to play in the NBA is a giant stretch. It is probably safe to say he's not "good enough" to excel in the NBA because if he was some NBA exec would make sure their option is way better than any international option, assuming they have cap room to do so. I agree, in principle. However, why would anyone play in the Summer League and workout for professional trainers and coaches, etc. if he wasn't interested in playing in the league? Let's be real - I think you'd be hard pressed to see a guy playing overseas and preferring to play there if they could legitimately play in the NBA. As to who's better than who, that's always up for debate and is quite subjective. Again, I've never said a top player in any international league that's had a cup of coffee in the league isn't necessarily "good enough." They were "good enough" to make it in the first place....however, they weren't "good enough" to last for one reason or another.
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Post by northcountymike on Jul 12, 2017 14:33:11 GMT -8
So you're saying that if he doesn't make a team it's because he is good enough? Got it. Being "good" and being "good enough" are two different things. In this case, Jamaal's plenty good, he just hasn't proven that he's good enough to make it in the NBA. Being good enough for the NBA is valid and it's the only measuring stick I'm using here. I don't make the "rules" in this case - the NBA does. That's not a state of being at all. But, if it makes you feel better for disagreeing with me simply because you have to stand by your man, then, by all means, stand by him. "Just hasn't proven". Now you got it. I had it all along - you just didn't want to believe .
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 12, 2017 14:36:50 GMT -8
So you're saying that if he doesn't make a team it's because he is good enough? Got it. Being "good" and being "good enough" are two different things. In this case, Jamaal's plenty good, he just hasn't proven that he's good enough to make it in the NBA. Being good enough for the NBA is valid and it's the only measuring stick I'm using here. I don't make the "rules" in this case - the NBA does. That's not a state of being at all. But, if it makes you feel better for disagreeing with me simply because you have to stand by your man, then, by all means, stand by him. "Just hasn't proven". Now you got it. Its like pulling teeth.
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Post by mySTRAS on Jul 12, 2017 15:00:14 GMT -8
So you're saying that if he doesn't make a team it's because he is good enough? Got it. Being "good" and being "good enough" are two different things. In this case, Jamaal's plenty good, he just hasn't proven that he's good enough to make it in the NBA. Being good enough for the NBA is valid and it's the only measuring stick I'm using here. I don't make the "rules" in this case - the NBA does. That's not a state of being at all. But, if it makes you feel better for disagreeing with me simply because you have to stand by your man, then, by all means, stand by him. This isn't HS where you either make the team or you don't. There are several players who are "good enough" to play in the NBA but choose to play in EU/CH, etc. due to a variety of reasons (more money, guaranteed multi-year contract, prefer to play big minutes, etc.). You're assuming he's not "good enough" for the NBA. Since we don't know if he's been offered & turned down NBA contracts, the only thing we know is he chose to play in CH the last couple years & excelled. I agree that for most mid-tier players it's probably a safe assumption they're not "good enough" for the NBA, but for standouts in their own league that's inaccurate. Players #10-15 on a NBA roster are virtually interchangeable with the top G-league and top international talent. At that point it's typically more about opportunity, fit, cap space, lifestyle, finances, etc. which separates someone from a NBA roster & playing elsewhere. I don't think there's any doubt Franklin is very "good". Whether he's "good enough" is unknown unless you're privy to discussions between NBA execs, International execs, his agent & him. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Jamaal has had NBA opportunities but instead of being an 9th or 10th man or bouncing between the G-League and the NBA he's decided to thrive elsewhere on a great contract. Is Quinn Cook a better player than Franklin because he's chosen to stay stateside but make less & play less, yet played in the NBA last year? Joe Young is another good comparison. Basically made the same money as Franklin, but only played in about half the games & only played around 6-9 minutes per when he did with the Pacers. You can't convince me Young is better than Franklin, nor that Franklin isn't "good enough" to do the same if he chose to. Unless you're privy to those conversations there's no way to prove otherwise. Saying a top player in an international league, especially one who's had a cup of coffee in the league, isn't "good enough" to play in the NBA is a giant stretch. It is probably safe to say he's not "good enough" to excel in the NBA because if he was some NBA exec would make sure their option is way better than any international option, assuming they have cap room to do so. A direct quote from Jamaal: “You’ve got your eye on the goal, and the goal is to get back to the league,” Franklin said after a recent D-Fenders game. www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/sdut-sdsu-basketball-jamaal-franklin-nuggets-2015apr11-story.html
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Post by sdcoug on Jul 12, 2017 15:08:49 GMT -8
This isn't HS where you either make the team or you don't. There are several players who are "good enough" to play in the NBA but choose to play in EU/CH, etc. due to a variety of reasons (more money, guaranteed multi-year contract, prefer to play big minutes, etc.). You're assuming he's not "good enough" for the NBA. Since we don't know if he's been offered & turned down NBA contracts, the only thing we know is he chose to play in CH the last couple years & excelled. I agree that for most mid-tier players it's probably a safe assumption they're not "good enough" for the NBA, but for standouts in their own league that's inaccurate. Players #10-15 on a NBA roster are virtually interchangeable with the top G-league and top international talent. At that point it's typically more about opportunity, fit, cap space, lifestyle, finances, etc. which separates someone from a NBA roster & playing elsewhere. I don't think there's any doubt Franklin is very "good". Whether he's "good enough" is unknown unless you're privy to discussions between NBA execs, International execs, his agent & him. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Jamaal has had NBA opportunities but instead of being an 9th or 10th man or bouncing between the G-League and the NBA he's decided to thrive elsewhere on a great contract. Is Quinn Cook a better player than Franklin because he's chosen to stay stateside but make less & play less, yet played in the NBA last year? Joe Young is another good comparison. Basically made the same money as Franklin, but only played in about half the games & only played around 6-9 minutes per when he did with the Pacers. You can't convince me Young is better than Franklin, nor that Franklin isn't "good enough" to do the same if he chose to. Unless you're privy to those conversations there's no way to prove otherwise. Saying a top player in an international league, especially one who's had a cup of coffee in the league, isn't "good enough" to play in the NBA is a giant stretch. It is probably safe to say he's not "good enough" to excel in the NBA because if he was some NBA exec would make sure their option is way better than any international option, assuming they have cap room to do so. I agree, in principle. However, why would anyone play in the Summer League and workout for professional trainers and coaches, etc. if he wasn't interested in playing in the league? Let's be real - I think you'd be hard pressed to see a guy playing overseas and preferring to play there if they could legitimately play in the NBA. As to who's better than who, that's always up for debate and is quite subjective. Again, I've never said a top player in any international league that's had a cup of coffee in the league isn't necessarily "good enough." They were "good enough" to make it in the first place....however, they weren't "good enough" to last for one reason or another. First, when's the last time Franklin played in the Summer League? As for statement #1, PLENTY of reasons why. They (he & his agent) want to see if they can find a better fit within the league than their previous offer(s). Something that might actually be a better fit, both in terms of PT, lifestyle & financial, than whats on the table playing internationally. You can work out for NBA execs, get an offer & still decide playing Internationally is better, OR you might find the right fit (i.e. McCaw in GSW) & decide that is a better situation than playing Internationally. As for the latter statement, define "to last"? You can be good enough "to last" in the NBA as a 9th/10th/11th man, playing in 30-40 games, 5-8 minutes per but still choose not to do so. Especially if you can make the same money (plus living expenses, which the NBA doesn't provide), play 30+ minutes in every game, and put up a triple double. Playing Internationally doesn't mean you're not "good enough to last" in the NBA. Among the better higher paid players, it more likely the right situation hasn't presented itself that's better than what you have. Being more specific, a friend of ours played college ball & when he graduated he was offered a chance to play in France OR sign with the Lakers Summer League team. Since when you play Summer League often the better contracts are gone from EU it's a risk. He decided to give it a shot in Vegas, and played well. Enough they "encouraged" him to play in the D-League and said he'd have a chance of being called up, but they couldn't offer him a guaranteed contract. His agent found him a last minute opening in Germany & he went & played there instead. Not the best international league (around 5th best or so), but solid & a good city/gig. He's since played in Turkey (top 3 league), Israel, Russia & even the EU league (top league). He was MVP of the playoffs and won a title along the way. Met fiance in Italy, etc. He's been offered a few contracts to come play in the Summer League & even offered a guaranteed contract and chose not to because his EU gig is better, and he knows he's starting, playing & loving the lifestyle. I'm sure his dream is still to play in the NBA but only in the right situation that benefits him, and he's not willing to pass on other options right now. He's 32 now, so probably running out of time. I don't claim to know why Jamaal is playing in China. Whether it's the best $$; a great city he likes, etc. Or simply he hasn't been offered the right (or any) contract in the NBA?? But I do know, as the 1 article noted, he's considered an NBA talent playing in China. I also know that since he's played in the league and is an elite player internationally it's a big stretch to say he's "not good enough to last" in the NBA, unless you're defining "to last" as "to star". It'll be interesting to see where he ends up next year. Maybe he likes being a top player in China, or maybe he moves up to a tougher league internationally, or he finds a tryout/G-league option, who knows? But it's not just about making the team. There are a LOT of factors involved.
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Post by sdcoug on Jul 12, 2017 15:16:10 GMT -8
This isn't HS where you either make the team or you don't. There are several players who are "good enough" to play in the NBA but choose to play in EU/CH, etc. due to a variety of reasons (more money, guaranteed multi-year contract, prefer to play big minutes, etc.). You're assuming he's not "good enough" for the NBA. Since we don't know if he's been offered & turned down NBA contracts, the only thing we know is he chose to play in CH the last couple years & excelled. I agree that for most mid-tier players it's probably a safe assumption they're not "good enough" for the NBA, but for standouts in their own league that's inaccurate. Players #10-15 on a NBA roster are virtually interchangeable with the top G-league and top international talent. At that point it's typically more about opportunity, fit, cap space, lifestyle, finances, etc. which separates someone from a NBA roster & playing elsewhere. I don't think there's any doubt Franklin is very "good". Whether he's "good enough" is unknown unless you're privy to discussions between NBA execs, International execs, his agent & him. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Jamaal has had NBA opportunities but instead of being an 9th or 10th man or bouncing between the G-League and the NBA he's decided to thrive elsewhere on a great contract. Is Quinn Cook a better player than Franklin because he's chosen to stay stateside but make less & play less, yet played in the NBA last year? Joe Young is another good comparison. Basically made the same money as Franklin, but only played in about half the games & only played around 6-9 minutes per when he did with the Pacers. You can't convince me Young is better than Franklin, nor that Franklin isn't "good enough" to do the same if he chose to. Unless you're privy to those conversations there's no way to prove otherwise. Saying a top player in an international league, especially one who's had a cup of coffee in the league, isn't "good enough" to play in the NBA is a giant stretch. It is probably safe to say he's not "good enough" to excel in the NBA because if he was some NBA exec would make sure their option is way better than any international option, assuming they have cap room to do so. A direct quote from Jamaal: “You’ve got your eye on the goal, and the goal is to get back to the league,” Franklin said after a recent D-Fenders game. www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/sdut-sdsu-basketball-jamaal-franklin-nuggets-2015apr11-story.html...stated 2 years ago while playing in the D-league, which is an NBA feeder league. Of course you say that when you're in the D-league. Also, prior to getting $1.4MM to play internationally. The fact is he had a guaranteed contract for the 2015 season, was getting paid by Memphis & was under contract with Denver and still chose to go to back to China. If his sole goal was to play in the league he would have played in the D-league, etc. Especially since he's already getting paid. Apparently, other options presented themselves. Again, all this is old news & prior to averaging a triple double, etc. I have no doubt everyone's dream is to play in the NBA, but there's a reason you have an agent. The NBA is not always the best situation overall.
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Post by mySTRAS on Jul 12, 2017 15:32:05 GMT -8
...stated 2 years ago while playing in the D-league, which is an NBA feeder league. Of course you say that when you're in the D-league. Also, prior to getting $1.4MM to play internationally. The fact is he had a guaranteed contract for the 2015 season, was getting paid by Memphis & was under contract with Denver and still chose to go to back to China. If his sole goal was to play in the league he would have played in the D-league, etc. Especially since he's already getting paid. Apparently, other options presented themselves. Again, all this is old news & prior to averaging a triple double, etc. I have no doubt everyone's dream is to play in the NBA, but there's a reason you have an agent. The NBA is not always the best situation overall. Jamaal was cut by Memphis, went to China, then played in the D-League... and then signed with Denver for the final 3 games of the season. He was not under contract with Denver when he 'chose' to go to China. Minimum salary in the NBA for 2017/18, for a player with 2 years experience (and not on a Rookie contract) is ~ $1.47mm.
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Post by sdcoug on Jul 12, 2017 15:47:55 GMT -8
...stated 2 years ago while playing in the D-league, which is an NBA feeder league. Of course you say that when you're in the D-league. Also, prior to getting $1.4MM to play internationally. The fact is he had a guaranteed contract for the 2015 season, was getting paid by Memphis & was under contract with Denver and still chose to go to back to China. If his sole goal was to play in the league he would have played in the D-league, etc. Especially since he's already getting paid. Apparently, other options presented themselves. Again, all this is old news & prior to averaging a triple double, etc. I have no doubt everyone's dream is to play in the NBA, but there's a reason you have an agent. The NBA is not always the best situation overall. Jamaal was cut by Memphis, went to China, then played in the D-League... and then signed with Denver for the final 3 games of the season. He was not under contract with Denver when he 'chose' to go to China. Minimum salary in the NBA for 2017/18, for a player with 2 years experience (and not on a Rookie contract) is ~ $1.47mm. Read the article. He just signed a "multi-year contract with the NBA’s Denver Nuggets on Saturday. The deal includes a chunk of guaranteed money for remainder of the NBA regular season, which ends Wednesday." If it's a "multi-year" contract he's under contract for the following year, even if it's not guaranteed $$. He could play summer league & go to camp. He instead went to China and played for Shanxi. Yes, this upcoming season's NBA minimum wage is $1.47MM for 2 years of experience. 2 years ago, before he went back to China, it was under $1MM. He made $1.4MM LAST year, plus typically a living allowance. We don't know what he's making NEXT year do we? PS. When he signed for $1.4MM in China last year the anticipated NBA Minimum for the '18 season (next year) was expected to be closer to $1.2MM. The fact it's exceeded expectations may change his future plans, but until you know what you can get in EU or CH moving forward you can't make a decision.
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Post by northcountymike on Jul 12, 2017 16:24:03 GMT -8
...stated 2 years ago while playing in the D-league, which is an NBA feeder league. Of course you say that when you're in the D-league. Also, prior to getting $1.4MM to play internationally. The fact is he had a guaranteed contract for the 2015 season, was getting paid by Memphis & was under contract with Denver and still chose to go to back to China. If his sole goal was to play in the league he would have played in the D-league, etc. Especially since he's already getting paid. Apparently, other options presented themselves. Again, all this is old news & prior to averaging a triple double, etc. I have no doubt everyone's dream is to play in the NBA, but there's a reason you have an agent. The NBA is not always the best situation overall. Jamaal was cut by Memphis, went to China, then played in the D-League... and then signed with Denver for the final 3 games of the season. He was not under contract with Denver when he 'chose' to go to China. Minimum salary in the NBA for 2017/18, for a player with 2 years experience (and not on a Rookie contract) is ~ $1.47mm. Contrary to what a few (ok, one) poster says, the goal is always to play in the NBA. Not the Chinese league or the Italian League or the Turkish League. However, if guys end up there, great - they're still playing a game for money. For someone to keep hammering the "you don't know the circumstances surrounding his decision - it might be better for him" argument is a cop-out and an easy excuse I think.
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Post by northcountymike on Jul 12, 2017 16:26:54 GMT -8
I agree, in principle. However, why would anyone play in the Summer League and workout for professional trainers and coaches, etc. if he wasn't interested in playing in the league? Let's be real - I think you'd be hard pressed to see a guy playing overseas and preferring to play there if they could legitimately play in the NBA. As to who's better than who, that's always up for debate and is quite subjective. Again, I've never said a top player in any international league that's had a cup of coffee in the league isn't necessarily "good enough." They were "good enough" to make it in the first place....however, they weren't "good enough" to last for one reason or another. First, when's the last time Franklin played in the Summer League? As for statement #1, PLENTY of reasons why. They (he & his agent) want to see if they can find a better fit within the league than their previous offer(s). Something that might actually be a better fit, both in terms of PT, lifestyle & financial, than whats on the table playing internationally. You can work out for NBA execs, get an offer & still decide playing Internationally is better, OR you might find the right fit (i.e. McCaw in GSW) & decide that is a better situation than playing Internationally. As for the latter statement, define "to last"? You can be good enough "to last" in the NBA as a 9th/10th/11th man, playing in 30-40 games, 5-8 minutes per but still choose not to do so. Especially if you can make the same money (plus living expenses, which the NBA doesn't provide), play 30+ minutes in every game, and put up a triple double. Playing Internationally doesn't mean you're not "good enough to last" in the NBA. Among the better higher paid players, it more likely the right situation hasn't presented itself that's better than what you have. Being more specific, a friend of ours played college ball & when he graduated he was offered a chance to play in France OR sign with the Lakers Summer League team. Since when you play Summer League often the better contracts are gone from EU it's a risk. He decided to give it a shot in Vegas, and played well. Enough they "encouraged" him to play in the D-League and said he'd have a chance of being called up, but they couldn't offer him a guaranteed contract. His agent found him a last minute opening in Germany & he went & played there instead. Not the best international league (around 5th best or so), but solid & a good city/gig. He's since played in Turkey (top 3 league), Israel, Russia & even the EU league (top league). He was MVP of the playoffs and won a title along the way. Met fiance in Italy, etc. He's been offered a few contracts to come play in the Summer League & even offered a guaranteed contract and chose not to because his EU gig is better, and he knows he's starting, playing & loving the lifestyle. I'm sure his dream is still to play in the NBA but only in the right situation that benefits him, and he's not willing to pass on other options right now. He's 32 now, so probably running out of time. I don't claim to know why Jamaal is playing in China. Whether it's the best $$; a great city he likes, etc. Or simply he hasn't been offered the right (or any) contract in the NBA?? But I do know, as the 1 article noted, he's considered an NBA talent playing in China. I also know that since he's played in the league and is an elite player internationally it's a big stretch to say he's "not good enough to last" in the NBA, unless you're defining "to last" as "to star". It'll be interesting to see where he ends up next year. Maybe he likes being a top player in China, or maybe he moves up to a tougher league internationally, or he finds a tryout/G-league option, who knows? But it's not just about making the team. There are a LOT of factors involved. Are you sure you want to continue to spend so much time and effort responding to someone who you've said was "clueless" abut basketball countless times?
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Post by sdcoug on Jul 12, 2017 16:49:08 GMT -8
First, when's the last time Franklin played in the Summer League? As for statement #1, PLENTY of reasons why. They (he & his agent) want to see if they can find a better fit within the league than their previous offer(s). Something that might actually be a better fit, both in terms of PT, lifestyle & financial, than whats on the table playing internationally. You can work out for NBA execs, get an offer & still decide playing Internationally is better, OR you might find the right fit (i.e. McCaw in GSW) & decide that is a better situation than playing Internationally. As for the latter statement, define "to last"? You can be good enough "to last" in the NBA as a 9th/10th/11th man, playing in 30-40 games, 5-8 minutes per but still choose not to do so. Especially if you can make the same money (plus living expenses, which the NBA doesn't provide), play 30+ minutes in every game, and put up a triple double. Playing Internationally doesn't mean you're not "good enough to last" in the NBA. Among the better higher paid players, it more likely the right situation hasn't presented itself that's better than what you have. Being more specific, a friend of ours played college ball & when he graduated he was offered a chance to play in France OR sign with the Lakers Summer League team. Since when you play Summer League often the better contracts are gone from EU it's a risk. He decided to give it a shot in Vegas, and played well. Enough they "encouraged" him to play in the D-League and said he'd have a chance of being called up, but they couldn't offer him a guaranteed contract. His agent found him a last minute opening in Germany & he went & played there instead. Not the best international league (around 5th best or so), but solid & a good city/gig. He's since played in Turkey (top 3 league), Israel, Russia & even the EU league (top league). He was MVP of the playoffs and won a title along the way. Met fiance in Italy, etc. He's been offered a few contracts to come play in the Summer League & even offered a guaranteed contract and chose not to because his EU gig is better, and he knows he's starting, playing & loving the lifestyle. I'm sure his dream is still to play in the NBA but only in the right situation that benefits him, and he's not willing to pass on other options right now. He's 32 now, so probably running out of time. I don't claim to know why Jamaal is playing in China. Whether it's the best $$; a great city he likes, etc. Or simply he hasn't been offered the right (or any) contract in the NBA?? But I do know, as the 1 article noted, he's considered an NBA talent playing in China. I also know that since he's played in the league and is an elite player internationally it's a big stretch to say he's "not good enough to last" in the NBA, unless you're defining "to last" as "to star". It'll be interesting to see where he ends up next year. Maybe he likes being a top player in China, or maybe he moves up to a tougher league internationally, or he finds a tryout/G-league option, who knows? But it's not just about making the team. There are a LOT of factors involved. Are you sure you want to continue to spend so much time and effort responding to someone who you've said was "clueless" abut basketball countless times? Standard SOP for NCM. Can't make a point so turns it to being personal. Instead of actually making a statement relevant to the thread you ask a question which implies people think you're clueless (I'm not the only one who's said that). Brilliant insights, thanks. I was answering honestly based on insights I've gained talking to people who've done the same thing as Jamaal, but hey, I'm sure you know exactly what's going on between him, his agent & NBA & International league execs. PS. Luckily there are no statistics involved (except salaries)!
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Post by azteccc on Jul 12, 2017 17:15:29 GMT -8
I am now dumber for having read this thread.
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Post by northcountymike on Jul 12, 2017 17:31:13 GMT -8
Are you sure you want to continue to spend so much time and effort responding to someone who you've said was "clueless" abut basketball countless times? Standard SOP for NCM. Can't make a point so turns it to being personal. Instead of actually making a statement relevant to the thread you ask a question which implies people think you're clueless (I'm not the only one who's said that). Brilliant insights, thanks. I was answering honestly based on insights I've gained talking to people who've done the same thing as Jamaal, but hey, I'm sure you know exactly what's going on between him, his agent & NBA & International league execs. PS. Luckily there are no statistics involved (except salaries)! I made my point as well as plenty of relevant statements earlier on in this thread...and you made yours. Fair enough? I'm glad you think I know exactly what's going on between Jamaal and his agent, and everyone else - too bad I never said I did. Funny how whatever opinion I have is wrong but yours is right about about something that's totally unknown to both of us. This thing got way off track when you decided to jump in and write lengthy posts per your own SOP. I'm just surprised you haven't learned yet or simply can't remember how all of these posts end up...
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Post by aardvark on Jul 12, 2017 17:35:08 GMT -8
I look at it this way. Jamaal is getting really good coin to play in China. He could also possibly play in Europe. He can make lots of money playing this game in many places. I wish him nothing but the best in his endeavors to try and get back to the NBA. But if he doesn't make it--tear up the Chinese league, Jamaal.
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Post by northcountymike on Jul 12, 2017 17:38:24 GMT -8
I look at it this way. Jamaal is getting really good coin to play in China. He could also possibly play in Europe. He can make lots of money playing this game in many places. I wish him nothing but the best in his endeavors to try and get back to the NBA. But if he doesn't make it--tear up the Chinese league, Jamaal. "Oh, but he is an NBA talent - he just hasn't stuck for one reason or another and teams are wrong to pass on him." "Oh, that's ok, playing in China is a much better deal - more exposure and better money, I'm sure he prefers it over the NBA." -- A poster (or two) on Aztec Mesa. (Don't worry, 'vark. I agree with your sentiments 100%).
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