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Post by rebar619 on May 16, 2017 13:16:08 GMT -8
We'll see how everything shakes out. If Acee is correct and the mayor is endorsing soon with or without SDSU. And if the opposition is mostly confined to other developers who have no interest in SDSU. Then I think this thing is a virtual lock to pass. Razing Qualcomm and developing land earning money for the City without a dime of tax payer money. My hope is Kaplan had legit info and Manchester is prepared to do something crazy. But outside from that, I'll continue to be totally confused by many if you guys around here. Cutting nose off to spite face deal. JD Wicker will be on 1360 at 5pm today. Should shed some light on developments i hope. And give info if Manchester is in fact in the works. But we'll see.... And pray tell, when was the last time you heard a word of substance come from Wicker's lips?
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Post by bolt1963 on May 16, 2017 13:19:53 GMT -8
I don't profess to know much about this but I thought I would throw in a few bits of information I have been told...
The first is from someone who works w/in the Athletic Department at SDSU--- he says the Aztecs are kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. It seems some major boosters are in the group of FS developers so even if it's not a great deal for SDSU they can't object too much without offending the major boosters. Of course, I have no hard facts on this, it's simply hearsay.
My second bit of hearsay, which could be completely wrong since I have read nothing about it on here from any of you knowledgeable posters, is from a guy who is or was considering investing in the FS deal (He's got some real coin)... he told me that included in the FS plan is, somewhere down the road, the addition of an NFL Stadium. I questioned him on this but he said, yes, two stadiums are in the plans - all I need to do is review the proposal... Of course, I figured if this was wrong someone here would tell me so. I certainly don't care enough to investigate it.
Have at it... Yes. SDSU boosters are part of FS. One is definitely Steve Altman. I don't know his level of contribution, but he said he was a donor. Of course you have the connection with Seidler and Fowler. Etc. You guys know your donors better than me, but thought that was a given from when it was first proposed. Yes, there is land set aside for a NFL stadium for five years. Since we aren't likely to ever get the NFL again, it's a fairly moot point.
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Post by Den60 on May 16, 2017 13:29:15 GMT -8
It is hard to believe in what doesn't exist. If SDSU has actually proposed a plan with a level of detail (and the means to pull it off) please point me to it. And, actually, the FS proposal does include some student residential and faculty office space. SDSU is not going to be a full partner in any development of the property as it stands right now, they aren't bringing much money in with them. I don't care if that partner is FS, Moores, Manchester or the next proposed savior, all are going to want to make the development work for them. By the way, I am not a soccer honk. I'd probably tune in a little for a local team (being a native San Diegan). I really find it discouraging that anyone who professes an opinion that may differ from the mean they are immediately labeled a "honk" for the "enemy" by others on this board. Again, what actual plan has SDSU come up with for the property? I repeat myself here because you do. Right now I just see the university opposing plans for the site, both now and in the past. Perhaps their plan is to fight any redevelopment of the site so as to leave it vacant for the day, which may or may not ever come, when they have all the pieces in place to take over and have the money to develop it. That's pretty much a crappy plan if that is the case. Perhaps they are just posturing in order to get more out of FS for themselves. That would be a better plan. At least the FS plan has some detail to it and does have the possibility of getting a new stadium built before 2020. If their vote fails you will be well into 2019 before you can get anything onto the ballot. Sorry if you think i'm calling you a soccer honk. Not the case. But those honks use that soundbite as their main defense to SDSU expansion. Hope you dont buy into that crap and use it too. You shouldn't, if so. But oh well. Not sure what other plans from the past you are referring to that SDSU opposes. The FS plan is obviously not a good deal for SDSU otherwise they would be on board. You suspect SDSU wants to just sit on the land until they have money to develop it? That is also a load of crap considering they have stated from the beginning they want to partner with a developer. You want SDSU to be prepared with a plan...dont you realize they spent the last year negotiating with FS over THAT particular plan. FS was obviously the preferred first choice to work with. But it is FS who was/is unwilling to budge in being a true partner. Why that then leads you to assume SDSU as the "obstructor" is beyond me. Was it not SDSU who put out emails and surveys legitimately asking for MLS/SDSU feedback? You say they spent a year working with FS on a plan and then decided they didn't like the terms. Now, they are going into what appears to be last minute negotiations with another developer. What happens if, after another year, they still don't get what they want and back out once again? Any developer is going to want to make a profit from the development. What if the terms of the new agreement means SDSU gets their 35 acres but no stadium (with no MSL team we certainly wont need a soccer stadium)? Will you be happy with that outcome? From what I have read they want a stadium and 35 acres. Because a river park will be part of any development that really restricts the developer from earning enough to cover the park and the stadium. Again, I have seen nothing from the university as far as specifics save for what they specifically don't like about the proposed stadium. We don't know what else they are going to want to build nor do we have a timetable from them as to when they would build. Even EH stated they have short term and long term goals for the property. If they want the amount of control over the property that you think they should have then they should be putting up the money and hiring those with expertise on how to develop it.
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Post by Den60 on May 16, 2017 13:32:39 GMT -8
The CSU chancellor publicly stated interest in the Mission Valley land yesterday along with announcing the hiring of the interim president. If somehow the FS plan does pass I'm now pretty confident the state will use eminent domain to take what it sees as necessary. I still don't think the FS plan will pass though as opposition hasn't even really begun yet and FS plan details will not be received well as people educate themselves on the proposal. You create a lot of issues in using eminent domain. The biggest would be you would be taking land from an entity that holds the power to tell you what you can do with your property. Another is that SDSU doesn't want or need the entire property so part of the development would be for commercial use.
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Post by aardvark on May 16, 2017 13:39:45 GMT -8
I don't profess to know much about this but I thought I would throw in a few bits of information I have been told...
The first is from someone who works w/in the Athletic Department at SDSU--- he says the Aztecs are kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. It seems some major boosters are in the group of FS developers so even if it's not a great deal for SDSU they can't object too much without offending the major boosters. Of course, I have no hard facts on this, it's simply hearsay.
My second bit of hearsay, which could be completely wrong since I have read nothing about it on here from any of you knowledgeable posters, is from a guy who is or was considering investing in the FS deal (He's got some real coin)... he told me that included in the FS plan is, somewhere down the road, the addition of an NFL Stadium. I questioned him on this but he said, yes, two stadiums are in the plans - all I need to do is review the proposal... Of course, I figured if this was wrong someone here would tell me so. I certainly don't care enough to investigate it.
Have at it... I believe your first bit of info is correct. The second part...an NFL stadium...all the FS proposal does (allegedly) is hold a spot of land for 5 years that gives someone the chance to build a new NFL-caliber stadium. FSI isn't building it, and I doubt the city will. And since there don't seem to be any spare NFL teams laying around--or someone with a billion or so dollars burning a hole in their pocket--that land will revert back to FSI to get developed.
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Post by sdsudevil on May 16, 2017 13:41:08 GMT -8
[/p] My second bit of hearsay, which could be completely wrong since I have read nothing about it on here from any of you knowledgeable posters, is from a guy who is or was considering investing in the FS deal (He's got some real coin)... he told me that included in the FS plan is, somewhere down the road, the addition of an NFL Stadium. I questioned him on this but he said, yes, two stadiums are in the plans - all I need to do is review the proposal... Of course, I figured if this was wrong someone here would tell me so. I certainly don't care enough to investigate it.
Have at it... [/quote] Yes, there is land set aside for a NFL stadium for five years. Since we aren't likely to ever get the NFL again, it's a fairly moot point. [/quote] You are correct bolt, but it is far from a moot point for investors, as soon as the timeline (read: waiting period) is up, FS is able to put in and be accepted for the zoning permits and then build out for more commercial/residential. It is like the final balloon payment on the plan. Hence why they are dangling the NFL carrot for the NFL lovers to vote yes, but what any logical person knows that bullet point is really just a calculated risk to develop that too.
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Post by Boise Aztec on May 16, 2017 14:00:41 GMT -8
Meaning SDSU has to potentially work on two fronts at the same time. Obviously your energies are mostly focused on this new stadium with a 40k capacity. It's duly noted that most of y'all don't trust FS. But a stadium is better than none. And while it's unrelated, the timing is such that the second-to-last thing you want is UCSD joining the Division 1 ranks. You want to keep the BW open in case your stadium hopes are dashed, you get a football-only invite to the AAC, decide to go independent, you think the MW is a slow death sentence, whatever. But if they're invited your safety net disappears. didn't the BW just say no again...
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Post by sdsu2000 on May 16, 2017 15:05:22 GMT -8
You keep hearing SDSU will eventually announce a plan. I think today's announcement only confirms that they will unveil something in the coming months.
Any proposal can not include keeping the Q in any shape or form. It has to be torn down and a new stadium built. Any proposal can't include an Arena. Put that downtown or next to the Sports Arena.
All they need to include is residence halls, river park, administration buildings, research campus, football stadium and some kind of retail/dining strip along the river park. Keep is small and open allowing the public to access the area.
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Post by Den60 on May 16, 2017 15:11:27 GMT -8
I don't profess to know much about this but I thought I would throw in a few bits of information I have been told...
The first is from someone who works w/in the Athletic Department at SDSU--- he says the Aztecs are kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. It seems some major boosters are in the group of FS developers so even if it's not a great deal for SDSU they can't object too much without offending the major boosters. Of course, I have no hard facts on this, it's simply hearsay.
My second bit of hearsay, which could be completely wrong since I have read nothing about it on here from any of you knowledgeable posters, is from a guy who is or was considering investing in the FS deal (He's got some real coin)... he told me that included in the FS plan is, somewhere down the road, the addition of an NFL Stadium. I questioned him on this but he said, yes, two stadiums are in the plans - all I need to do is review the proposal... Of course, I figured if this was wrong someone here would tell me so. I certainly don't care enough to investigate it.
Have at it... The plan reserves a spot for an NFL sized stadium for 5 years. No team is going to relocate here in that time and it is really just a bone thrown to former Charger fans. Perhaps SDSU can make a push for that land where they can fund and build their own stadium or use it for future residential, classroom or office space. Of course, they would have to buy the land but FS could then build the 20K stadium for soccer that they, and the MSL, prefer.
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Post by fanhood on May 16, 2017 15:25:50 GMT -8
So where are the idiots claiming that SDSU is impotent, and has no plan?
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Post by bolt1963 on May 16, 2017 15:31:38 GMT -8
So where are the idiots claiming that SDSU is impotent, and has no plan? You think this is a plan? I'll agree a plan better be coming very soon or this would mark criminal incompetence and over playing a leverage hand. Hopefully they'll announce a development partner or a billion in financing to do it alone. But it hasn't happened yet and when/if it does, it wasn't a plan until very recently. Again with the premature victory lap.
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Post by fanhood on May 16, 2017 15:39:38 GMT -8
So where are the idiots claiming that SDSU is impotent, and has no plan? You think this is a plan? I'll agree a plan better be coming very soon or this would mark criminal incompetence and over playing a leverage hand. Hopefully they'll announce a development partner or a billion in financing to do it alone. But it hasn't happened yet and when/if it does, it wasn't a plan until very recently. Again with the premature victory lap. Take your head out of the sand, and head to Inglewood. I'm going for a drink.
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Post by bolt1963 on May 16, 2017 15:44:00 GMT -8
You think this is a plan? I'll agree a plan better be coming very soon or this would mark criminal incompetence and over playing a leverage hand. Hopefully they'll announce a development partner or a billion in financing to do it alone. But it hasn't happened yet and when/if it does, it wasn't a plan until very recently. Again with the premature victory lap. Take your head out of the sand, and head to Inglewood. I'm going for a drink. OK. Best of luck
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Post by rebar619 on May 16, 2017 15:54:38 GMT -8
You think this is a plan? I'll agree a plan better be coming very soon or this would mark criminal incompetence and over playing a leverage hand. Hopefully they'll announce a development partner or a billion in financing to do it alone. But it hasn't happened yet and when/if it does, it wasn't a plan until very recently. Again with the premature victory lap. Take your head out of the sand, and head to Inglewood. I'm going for a drink. I gotta say that I am with Bolt1963 on this one. I wont have the warm fuzzys until I KNOW there is a plan in SDSU's back pocket. So far there has been nothing to give me that comfort. Will let you guys know if I can find out what that plan is.
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Post by rebar619 on May 16, 2017 16:26:42 GMT -8
Wow, JD is killing it on 1360. Proving me wrong by laying out the argument for SDSU West.
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Post by bolt1963 on May 16, 2017 16:34:02 GMT -8
No question to me SDSU West and a stadium is the best use for the land. But did Wicker say how they're going to get it done? That's always been my issue. If you're going to poo poo the only plan on the table, you better be ready to announce your alternative plan.
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Post by aztecmouse on May 16, 2017 16:41:37 GMT -8
You think this is a plan? I'll agree a plan better be coming very soon or this would mark criminal incompetence and over playing a leverage hand. Hopefully they'll announce a development partner or a billion in financing to do it alone. But it hasn't happened yet and when/if it does, it wasn't a plan until very recently. Again with the premature victory lap. Take your head out of the sand, and head to Inglewood. I'm going for a drink. Where's the plan?? SDSU NEEDS ato come out with a viable plan soon, otherwise we'll just be seen as roadblocks. It is you that needs to take your head out of the sand...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2017 17:51:25 GMT -8
I don't profess to know much about this but I thought I would throw in a few bits of information I have been told...
The first is from someone who works w/in the Athletic Department at SDSU--- he says the Aztecs are kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. It seems some major boosters are in the group of FS developers so even if it's not a great deal for SDSU they can't object too much without offending the major boosters. Of course, I have no hard facts on this, it's simply hearsay.
My second bit of hearsay, which could be completely wrong since I have read nothing about it on here from any of you knowledgeable posters, is from a guy who is or was considering investing in the FS deal (He's got some real coin)... he told me that included in the FS plan is, somewhere down the road, the addition of an NFL Stadium. I questioned him on this but he said, yes, two stadiums are in the plans - all I need to do is review the proposal... Of course, I figured if this was wrong someone here would tell me so. I certainly don't care enough to investigate it.
Have at it... The plan reserves a spot for an NFL sized stadium for 5 years. No team is going to relocate here in that time and it is really just a bone thrown to former Charger fans. Perhaps SDSU can make a push for that land where they can fund and build their own stadium or use it for future residential, classroom or office space. Of course, they would have to buy the land but FS could then build the 20K stadium for soccer that they, and the MSL, prefer. I see, makes sense really, my buddy would of course talk about the possibility for a larger stadium because he knows I am an Aztec fan... sounds like a nice marketing tool and that's it. We shall see what happens indeed. All I'll add for the 1963 Enterprise guy saying he doesn't understand why some fans here are 'cutting their nose off to spite their face' is that the fans here have zero say in if this FS passes or doesn't. These are just fans talking. Why do you care if they agree with your opinion or not? That's what I don't understand.
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Post by bolt1963 on May 16, 2017 18:03:25 GMT -8
Wait. So opinions only matter if you can directly affect the outcome? Damn dude, you just killed message boards. Do you have opinions on games? And aside from that, you do have an impact if you're a voter in San Diego. Regardless, I don't need anyone to "agree" with me. Just expect a basic understanding of the subject you have an opinion on. I answered your two questions nicely - even though I repeated myself and many others on this board for the hundredth time. Had you been paying even a little bit of attention - you'd have known the answers.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2017 19:54:41 GMT -8
Wait. So opinions only matter if you can directly affect the outcome? Damn dude, you just killed message boards. Do you have opinions on games? And aside from that, you do have an impact if you're a voter in San Diego. Regardless, I don't need anyone to "agree" with me. Just expect a basic understanding of the subject you have an opinion on. I answered your two questions nicely - even though I repeated myself and many others on this board for the hundredth time. Had you been paying even a little bit of attention - you'd have known the answers. Geezus, dude get over yourself. You come here and tell us all you know while every once in a while throwing in some snide remark about SDSU and their fans. Here's a couple for you.... drag their dicks on the ground.... tick tick tick..... SDSU has no stroke.. I could look for more but not worth my time. You do this and expect people to listen to the crap you post. This is an Aztec fan board not the buff board. I didn't direct any questions to you or anyone... I stated some items a couple people told me and even pointed out many on here probably know more about it than I. It will certainly be nice once this all ends and we'll be rid of your trash posts.
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