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Post by AzTex on Mar 13, 2017 9:53:35 GMT -8
Moderators, do your jobs. Please, enlighten me - what rules has NCM broken? It's like being a cop - you can't arrest people for being annoying. If someone wants to protest something outside their own home, in their own yard, every day (stopping at 10:00 pm, never making enough noise to, "Disturb the peace") a cop can't do anything about it until and unless that person breaks the law. Are they a nuisance? Probably. Are they breaking the law? Nope. I have not seen NCM insult, attack, or mock other board members - and no one has PM'd me links with any such rule breaking. I've seen people break those rules when dealing with NCM, which creates all sorts of problems, but I haven't seen NCM do it.NCM is entitled to his opinion, as are you. If someone breaks the forum rules, we deal with it. I banned a troll a week and a half or two weeks ago due to rules violations. I can't do it just because people don't like what someone posts, there have to be rules violations. It's easy to bitch and moan about the mod staff, but no one actually wants the job. When we do take action (within the rules, deleting or editing posts, issuing warnings, etc) we're considered heavy handed bullies by some, but when we don't take action (because rules haven't been violated) some people say we aren't doing our jobs. And I disagree with your take on NCM. He strikes me as a passionate, dedicated fan who has become frustrated and posts to vent that frustration at times. Maybe I've missed something, but I haven't seen him violate forum rules. The other member who got banned DID violate forum rules, and his membership on The Mesa was terminated as a result. That's because NCM is like the next door kids who tease your dog day after day by banging on the fence, poking sticks at the dog, running up and down the fence line teasing the dog. They haven't actually trespassed on your property or physically harmed the dog. But, if the dog gets loose and bites one of the kids, is it really the dogs fault or the kids?
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Post by mnico213 on Mar 13, 2017 10:01:57 GMT -8
Please, enlighten me - what rules has NCM broken? It's like being a cop - you can't arrest people for being annoying. If someone wants to protest something outside their own home, in their own yard, every day (stopping at 10:00 pm, never making enough noise to, "Disturb the peace") a cop can't do anything about it until and unless that person breaks the law. Are they a nuisance? Probably. Are they breaking the law? Nope. I have not seen NCM insult, attack, or mock other board members - and no one has PM'd me links with any such rule breaking. I've seen people break those rules when dealing with NCM, which creates all sorts of problems, but I haven't seen NCM do it.NCM is entitled to his opinion, as are you. If someone breaks the forum rules, we deal with it. I banned a troll a week and a half or two weeks ago due to rules violations. I can't do it just because people don't like what someone posts, there have to be rules violations. It's easy to bitch and moan about the mod staff, but no one actually wants the job. When we do take action (within the rules, deleting or editing posts, issuing warnings, etc) we're considered heavy handed bullies by some, but when we don't take action (because rules haven't been violated) some people say we aren't doing our jobs. And I disagree with your take on NCM. He strikes me as a passionate, dedicated fan who has become frustrated and posts to vent that frustration at times. Maybe I've missed something, but I haven't seen him violate forum rules. The other member who got banned DID violate forum rules, and his membership on The Mesa was terminated as a result. That's because NCM is like the next door kids who tease your dog day after day by banging on the fence, poking sticks at the dog, running up and down the fence line teasing the dog. They haven't actually trespassed on your property or physically harmed the dog. But, if the dog gets loose and bites one of the kids, is it really the dogs fault or the kids? No, in this case the kid came into the backyard and stabbed the dog, but until Aztec Panther has someone hand him the knife already fingerprinted and a handwritten notarized confession note with an accompanying video that shows the entire event, he is powerless to do anything.
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Post by northcountymike on Mar 13, 2017 10:12:32 GMT -8
I can't see the word troll and not think of Droski. Wish we were playing Cal this year. He was fun. At least Droski made no pretense that he was not an Aztec fan. He was loudly and proudly a Cal fan. Therefore, his "trolling" was much less irritating than our home grown trolls who claim to be real Aztec fans, but almost never have anything positive to say. I think you miss the overall point that some of us are trying to make. Basically, you don't get to decide who is a real fan and who isn't. Anyone who isn't a real fan by your standards is labeled a "troll," unfortunately.
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Post by northcountymike on Mar 13, 2017 10:14:24 GMT -8
Please, enlighten me - what rules has NCM broken? It's like being a cop - you can't arrest people for being annoying. If someone wants to protest something outside their own home, in their own yard, every day (stopping at 10:00 pm, never making enough noise to, "Disturb the peace") a cop can't do anything about it until and unless that person breaks the law. Are they a nuisance? Probably. Are they breaking the law? Nope. I have not seen NCM insult, attack, or mock other board members - and no one has PM'd me links with any such rule breaking. I've seen people break those rules when dealing with NCM, which creates all sorts of problems, but I haven't seen NCM do it.NCM is entitled to his opinion, as are you. If someone breaks the forum rules, we deal with it. I banned a troll a week and a half or two weeks ago due to rules violations. I can't do it just because people don't like what someone posts, there have to be rules violations. It's easy to bitch and moan about the mod staff, but no one actually wants the job. When we do take action (within the rules, deleting or editing posts, issuing warnings, etc) we're considered heavy handed bullies by some, but when we don't take action (because rules haven't been violated) some people say we aren't doing our jobs. And I disagree with your take on NCM. He strikes me as a passionate, dedicated fan who has become frustrated and posts to vent that frustration at times. Maybe I've missed something, but I haven't seen him violate forum rules. The other member who got banned DID violate forum rules, and his membership on The Mesa was terminated as a result. That's because NCM is like the next door kids who tease your dog day after day by banging on the fence, poking sticks at the dog, running up and down the fence line teasing the dog. They haven't actually trespassed on your property or physically harmed the dog. But, if the dog gets loose and bites one of the kids, is it really the dogs fault or the kids? We're all human (and adults, I sincerely hope). But, it certainly sounds like you don't believe you should be held accountable for your actions. It's unfortunate that a few people believe that how they react/respond isn't an issue.
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Post by mactec on Mar 13, 2017 10:19:31 GMT -8
My problem with these trolls is that they ruin the experience of the site for everyone. There are about 5 guys who post the same $#!+ in every topic. Team sucks, no heart, Fisher needs to go, etc. Ad nauseum.
I understand these guys have their own opinions but at this point they aren't contributing anything to the site. Every single thread turns into a debate why Fish should or shouldn't be fired or why we suck at recruiting. It's getting really old.
You can hide behind the "they're not breaking any rules!" front, but come on. At the moment, here are some the first 10 top posts:
-Steve Fisher has to go -Players....WTF -SHOULD THE FISH RETIRE? -HELLO,HELLO Basketball Recruiting HELLO IS ANYONE HOME -Best case coaching scenario for 2017 2018 Basketball (basically says Fish needs to go)
These 4 or 5 guys aren't fans. They're man-children who feel entitled to a Top 10 finish every season because they've been going to games for X years. And they won't be quiet until we're a Top 10 team in football and basketball (even that might not be enough).
I guess at the end of the day you have to decide what kind of message board you want. Do you want a board that welcomes low-quality content for the sake of "not getting rid of the rule breakers" or do you want a board that promotes healthy discussion?
Don't get me wrong. I don't think every fan needs to be optimistic about our programs. I totally understand how people can be frustrated after a steep decline in the basketball program. But at the same time, you need some minimum threshold for what constitutes discussion and what is just a low-effort attention grab. If you ask me, the 5 threads I bolded above feel a lot more like the latter.
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Post by AzTex on Mar 13, 2017 10:21:20 GMT -8
That's because NCM is like the next door kids who tease your dog day after day by banging on the fence, poking sticks at the dog, running up and down the fence line teasing the dog. They haven't actually trespassed on your property or physically harmed the dog. But, if the dog gets loose and bites one of the kids, is it really the dogs fault or the kids? No, in this case the kid came into the backyard and stabbed the dog, but until Aztec Panther has someone hand him the knife already fingerprinted and a handwritten notarized confession note with an accompanying video that shows the entire event, he is powerless to do anything. This is close to the truth for some posters such as ctap13 and aztecbully. But, NCM is much more subtle. He would never leave such obvious evidence. Same result.
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Post by missiontrails on Mar 13, 2017 10:27:51 GMT -8
This is what Erik and his dad need to consider and decide upon...
Sure, certain posters don't fit the classic definition of "trolls" and they are posting within the so-called "rules". But the bottom line is, you are rapidly losing fans off this board due to the constant turd-in-the-punchbowl responses. Ones that are always the same message, just different wording. You'll need to decide at some point which is more important to you. I certainly don't envy your predicament.
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Post by northcountymike on Mar 13, 2017 10:34:42 GMT -8
My problem with these trolls is that they ruin the experience of the site for everyone. There are about 5 guys who post the same $#!+ in every topic. Team sucks, no heart, Fisher needs to go, etc. Ad nauseum. I understand these guys have their own opinions but at this point they aren't contributing anything to the site. Every single thread turns into a debate why Fish should or shouldn't be fired or why we suck at recruiting. It's getting really old. You can hide behind the "they're not breaking any rules!" front, but come on. At the moment, here are some the first 10 top posts: -Steve Fisher has to go -Players....WTF -SHOULD THE FISH RETIRE? -HELLO,HELLO Basketball Recruiting HELLO IS ANYONE HOME -Best case coaching scenario for 2017 2018 Basketball (basically says Fish needs to go)These 4 or 5 guys aren't fans. They're man-children who feel entitled to a Top 10 finish every season because they've been going to games for X years. And they won't be quiet until we're a Top 10 team in football and basketball (even that might not be enough). I guess at the end of the day you have to decide what kind of message board you want. Do you want a board that welcomes low-quality content for the sake of "not getting rid of the rule breakers" or do you want a board that promotes healthy discussion? Don't get me wrong. I don't think every fan needs to be optimistic about our programs. I totally understand how people can be frustrated after a steep decline in the basketball program. But at the same time, you need some minimum threshold for what constitutes discussion and what is just a low-effort attention grab. If you ask me, the 5 threads I bolded above feel a lot more like the latter. I'm glad I don't start topics like the ones mentioned above nor take a similar role compared to a few others that do (especially in topics like those).
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Post by azson on Mar 13, 2017 10:37:56 GMT -8
This was never an issue with our old assistant manager. BRING BACK FEMBONE 2017 I like her far too much to wish for her to come back here. But yes, once she left -- including *why* she left -- this place has been on a steeeeeep decline. Why did she?
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Post by azson on Mar 13, 2017 10:52:09 GMT -8
Moderators, do your jobs. Please, enlighten me - what rules has NCM broken? It's like being a cop - you can't arrest people for being annoying. If someone wants to protest something outside their own home, in their own yard, every day (stopping at 10:00 pm, never making enough noise to, "Disturb the peace") a cop can't do anything about it until and unless that person breaks the law. Are they a nuisance? Probably. Are they breaking the law? Nope. I have not seen NCM insult, attack, or mock other board members - and no one has PM'd me links with any such rule breaking. I've seen people break those rules when dealing with NCM, which creates all sorts of problems, but I haven't seen NCM do it. NCM is entitled to his opinion, as are you. If someone breaks the forum rules, we deal with it. I banned a troll a week and a half or two weeks ago due to rules violations. I can't do it just because people don't like what someone posts, there have to be rules violations. It's easy to bitch and moan about the mod staff, but no one actually wants the job. When we do take action (within the rules, deleting or editing posts, issuing warnings, etc) we're considered heavy handed bullies by some, but when we don't take action (because rules haven't been violated) some people say we aren't doing our jobs. And I disagree with your take on NCM. He strikes me as a passionate, dedicated fan who has become frustrated and posts to vent that frustration at times. Maybe I've missed something, but I haven't seen him violate forum rules. The other member who got banned DID violate forum rules, and his membership on The Mesa was terminated as a result.It took you how many months/years and thousands of posts by douchey before you banned him? Face facts dude, you guys have been slipping for a long time now (case in point, take a look at this poll result). The first step is to look in the mirror and take some responsibility. Will you?
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Post by North County Aztec on Mar 13, 2017 10:53:04 GMT -8
An easy way to address some of this would be a one thread creation per day rule, and something like 3-5 max thread creations per week. In addition to "likes", I believe there is also an option for "groans" or thumbs down or something similar. Neither of those things are options under the Proboards system. Here's a plugin for post reactions. I was an admin there a few years ago seems I saw a thumbs down. If you want to use plugins I'll ask. support.proboards.com/thread/580509/post-reactions-updated-1st-2016
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Post by standiego on Mar 13, 2017 11:02:00 GMT -8
Not .sure if Trolls or not but what is hurting this site . Is when people go back and forth arguments about individual traits of poster X or Y or Z . Posts should be about content NOT individuals just adding arguments about this poster , then that poster and it keeps going on and on , individuals vs individuals - Do not need those at all and they should be zapped . They are not about Aztecs but about posters . and who cares ? Set up a Bitch off section for those want to continue in that mode. Or Jerry Springer Section or Point / Counter Point section . But delete all the personal back and forth .
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Post by johneaztec on Mar 13, 2017 11:08:59 GMT -8
Not .sure if Trolls or not but what is hurting this site . Is when people go back and forth arguments about individual traits of poster X or Y or Z . Posts should be about content NOT individuals just adding arguments about this poster , then that poster and it keeps going on and on , individuals vs individuals - Do not need those at all and they should be zapped . They are not about Aztecs but about posters . and who cares ? Set up a Bitch off section for those want to continue in that mode. Or Jerry Springer Section or Point / Counter Point section . But delete all the personal back and forth . Makes sense, but I bet most posters would be popping popcorn, and spending all their time reading the bitch posts, unfortunately.
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Post by azteccc on Mar 13, 2017 11:10:34 GMT -8
I guess at the end of the day you have to decide what kind of message board you want. Do you want a board that welcomes low-quality content for the sake of "not getting rid of the rule breakers" or do you want a board that promotes healthy discussion? This is really what it is. The issue, as I see it, is the board owners don't want to admit that this is a fundamental choice they are facing. They are currently making their choice VERY clear without even knowing/admitting they're making it.
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Post by richpjr on Mar 13, 2017 11:18:12 GMT -8
I guess at the end of the day you have to decide what kind of message board you want. Do you want a board that welcomes low-quality content for the sake of "not getting rid of the rule breakers" or do you want a board that promotes healthy discussion? Everybody has a different idea about what low-quality content and healthy discussions are.
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Post by azteccc on Mar 13, 2017 11:19:57 GMT -8
I guess at the end of the day you have to decide what kind of message board you want. Do you want a board that welcomes low-quality content for the sake of "not getting rid of the rule breakers" or do you want a board that promotes healthy discussion? Everybody has a different idea about what low-quality content and healthy discussions are. Not everyone, just low-quality posters and mods, apparently.
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Post by northcountymike on Mar 13, 2017 11:31:32 GMT -8
I guess at the end of the day you have to decide what kind of message board you want. Do you want a board that welcomes low-quality content for the sake of "not getting rid of the rule breakers" or do you want a board that promotes healthy discussion? This is really what it is. The issue, as I see it, is the board owners don't want to admit that this is a fundamental choice they are facing. They are currently making their choice VERY clear without even knowing/admitting they're making it. As are posters...
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Post by northcountymike on Mar 13, 2017 11:33:07 GMT -8
Everybody has a different idea about what low-quality content and healthy discussions are. Not everyone, just low-quality posters and mods, apparently. Amazing how you and a few others get to decide what "low-quality" is. To me, "low quality" includes name-calling and urging moderators to ban users because you don't agree with what others say. But I digress....
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Post by sgvaztec on Mar 13, 2017 11:39:28 GMT -8
I have been a member of every Aztec message board for a LONG time. I used to post under a different name. My recollection is that I started when we actually had an Aztec section of the Fresno State Bark Board.
The main reason l come here is to learn something (X's and O's, injury updates, insights from guys who know what they are talking about, etc.).
I guess I am a snowflake because I hate it when posters rip into college kids and say things about them when those kids are often working twice as hard as the average college kid. My fourth daughter is now a freshman at LBSU. Being 18-22 is not just a joy ride. The life of a college athlete is not a piece of cake.
I also care about other teams in our league. I want to read about them. I follow the Aztecs because I love sports and the Aztecs are my team, and the Mountain West is my league.
Yes, the Aztecs drive me nuts. I have walked out of Jack Murphy and the Q feeling suicidal many times. But they are what they are, and I love the Aztecs.
Posting a negative thread is OK with me. The problem that we have is that we have the same bitchy, negative posters who post negative posts time after time after time. Hundreds of times. These guys piss me off because if following the Aztecs was that bad for me, I would just have to become an Alabama or Patriots fan. I guess I would then feel fulfilled or something. But that is not me.
Yes, Aztec Mesa trolls are ruining this site for me.
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Post by AccessBowlTime on Mar 13, 2017 11:47:19 GMT -8
At least Droski made no pretense that he was not an Aztec fan. He was loudly and proudly a Cal fan. Therefore, his "trolling" was much less irritating than our home grown trolls who claim to be real Aztec fans, but almost never have anything positive to say. I think you miss the overall point that some of us are trying to make. Basically, you don't get to decide who is a real fan and who isn't. Anyone who isn't a real fan by your standards is labeled a "troll," unfortunately. I wouldn't say you're not a "real" fan and you're also not a "fake" fan. However, anybody whose posts are negative 3/4 of the time about something as generally successful as Aztec basketball has zero cred. The same goes for cpap13, osdoublezero and a few others here.
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