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Post by AztecWilliam on Dec 2, 2015 14:13:10 GMT -8
Giving him every benefit of the doubt (such as the Middle East being a total mess for generations prior to 2009), I'm trying to imagine how any reasonably objective person would actually think that President Obama's leadership in that region has been anything other than a total disaster. Well, now comes more evidence that his ambivalent (to be kind) leadership in Iraq and Syria has backfired. And badly. How about this whopper? It is widely believed in Iraq that we created ISIS and are actively supporter it! No, seriously, this is not a bad joke. Please take note ...... ...the notion that the United States is colluding with the Islamic State holds a certain logic, according to Mustafa Alani, director of the Dubai-based Gulf Research Center. Most Arabs are too in awe of American might to believe that the United States is deliberately adopting a minimalist approach, he said.
“The reason is that the Americans aren’t doing the job people expect them to do,” he said. “Mosul was lost and the Americans did nothing. Syria was lost and the Americans did nothing. Paris is attacked and the Americans aren’t doing much. So people believe this is a deliberate policy. They can’t believe the American leadership fails to understand the developments in the region, and so the only other explanation is that this is part of a conspiracy.”
On the streets of Baghdad, most Iraqis see no other explanation.
And why is it that "Americans did nothing"? It's impossible to argue that no one other than our President is responsible. Understand that if Pres. Obama really did believe that we should stop meddling in the Middle East (and maybe Afghanistan as well), he could have ordered ALL our forces out and back home by the end of his first year in office. I think that would have been at least, if not more, catastrophic for American interests, but at least it would have proved that the man has core beliefs that he is willing to act upon no matter the consequences. Instead, we have piddled away for years without serious intent, with (at least in Afghanistan) 3 out or every 4 combat deaths occuring on his watch. www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/iraqis-think-the-us-is-in-cahoots-with-isis-and-it-is-hurting-the-war/2015/12/01/d00968ec-9243-11e5-befa-99ceebcbb272_story.htmlAzWm |
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Dec 2, 2015 16:05:59 GMT -8
AW - This is a bunch of crap.
Every time the U.S. has attempted to "lead" in the middle east it has been shown that we have no clue on what we are doing. This goes back many decades and many presidents. We should stay the hell out and let them carve each other up. The problem is that you believe, like Trump, that America should impose it's will and nation build in our image. That said, I do believe that we should support those nations that show signs of movement towards a more secular, and stable, society. Unfortunately the opposite seems to be happening right now with Turkey and others moving away from secularism. Believe it or not, I hold out hope for Iran as a more educated society tends to gravitate to secularism.
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Post by aztecwin on Dec 2, 2015 16:07:10 GMT -8
I think that it is much more likely that our complete ineffective action and inaction is a reflection of a horribly weak and ineffective President Obama. I am not even sure what side Obama is on but doubt it is like suspected above.
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Dec 2, 2015 16:09:05 GMT -8
I think that it is much more likely that our complete ineffective action and inaction is a reflection of a horribly weak and ineffective President Obama. I am not even sure what side Obama is on but doubt it is like suspected above. More from hater #1. Yes Win. Obama is actually a Muslim who supports ISIS and wants to see Sharia law imposed here in the U.S.  |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Dec 2, 2015 22:43:18 GMT -8
Come on, Always, still sticking to the if-you-criticize-Obama-you-must-be-a-hater line? How about rejecting his policies because they are ineffective at best and disastrous at worst, with no reference whatsoever made to any personal feelings for the man? I'm sure we will soon see plenty of the inevitable if-you-criticize-Hillary-you-must-be-a-sexist line. I guess one will have to heartily endorse Clinton and her policies if one wishes not to be called bad names. Aren't these exciting times we live in?  AzWm |
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Dec 3, 2015 9:23:58 GMT -8
Come on, Always, still sticking to the if-you-criticize-Obama-you-must-be-a-hater line? How about rejecting his policies because they are ineffective at best and disastrous at worst, with no reference whatsoever made to any personal feelings for the man? I'm sure we will soon see plenty of the inevitable if-you-criticize-Hillary-you-must-be-a-sexist line. I guess one will have to heartily endorse Clinton and her policies if one wishes not to be called bad names. Aren't these exciting times we live in? AzWm So says hater #2 You think that "hater" is a "bad name" but is fine for some of the cons on this board to call me a socialist, communist, and traitor (among others)? Give me a break. And for Win to wonder "what side" Obama is on is nothing but pure hate. Your implied agreement with him shows more of the same. |
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Post by William L. Rupp on Dec 3, 2015 11:41:34 GMT -8
Well, are you a socialist, communist, or traitor? If not, you have reason to object. However, one might sincerely believe in the accuracy of the first two adjectives (traitor is so well defined that its use must be backed up by actual facts). If that is so, your recourse is to explain why you are not a socialist or communist. Other readers can then decide whether the charge made against you is legitimate.
As for being a hater, I personally do not have the energy to hate anyone. Just make sure that "hate," as you use it, does not simply mean "anyone who disagrees with my political philosophy,"
And, since I post this as wlr, consider this an official response to your concern.
WLR
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Post by uwphoto on Dec 3, 2015 12:16:10 GMT -8
Well, are you a socialist, communist, or traitor? If not, you have reason to object. However, one might sincerely believe in the accuracy of the first two adjectives (traitor is so well defined that its use must be backed up by actual facts). If that is so, your recourse is to explain why you are not a socialist or communist. Other readers can then decide whether the charge made against you is legitimate. As for being a hater, I personally do not have the energy to hate anyone. Just make sure that "hate," as you use it, does not simply mean "anyone who disagrees with my political philosophy," And, since I post this as wlr, consider this an official response to your concern. WLR
Why a joke? You have your opinions, I have mine, others have theirs. Come one, come all. I will remind everyone that when I am posting as a humble member, I use AztecWilliam. I am William L. Rupp when I speak ex cathedra, which means, and I quote: "with the full authority of office." Anyway, freedom of speech is the rule here, with the proviso that posters should refrain from calling each other bad names. That is not to say that some egregious or semi-egregious comments that exceed the bounds of good taste may not slip by. We regret that, but it should be kept in mind that administering a site such as this is very time consuming. The administrators here are serving on a volunteer basis. We do not make the claim that every case worthy of official action will be dealt with. We do have private lives, after all. WLR |
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Post by aztecwin on Dec 3, 2015 15:44:47 GMT -8
I think we see what is going on here. Unable to respond in a logical way so you accuse the level headed folks of being haters. UW, you are slowing losing it it. You are reasonable on most things, but why would you be so dismissive of reasoned criticism of BHO?
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Dec 3, 2015 16:34:19 GMT -8
I think we see what is going on here. Unable to respond in a logical way so you accuse the level headed folks of being haters. UW, you are slowing losing it it. You are reasonable on most things, but why would you be so dismissive of reasoned criticism of BHO? Sorry Win but "I am not even sure what side Obama is on" is not 'reasoned criticism'. You might as well just create an 'Obama is a Muslim" thread to go along with your birther thread. |
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Post by aztecwin on Dec 3, 2015 16:46:29 GMT -8
I think we see what is going on here. Unable to respond in a logical way so you accuse the level headed folks of being haters. UW, you are slowing losing it it. You are reasonable on most things, but why would you be so dismissive of reasoned criticism of BHO? Sorry Win but "I am not even sure what side Obama is on" is not 'reasoned criticism'. You might as well just create an 'Obama is a Muslim" thread to go along with your birther thread. Well, we are talking about AW's post and not mine. That being said, I am not sure of Obama's loyalty. That is a statement of fact and not opinion which is separate. |
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Post by uwphoto on Dec 3, 2015 18:16:50 GMT -8
I think we see what is going on here. Unable to respond in a logical way so you accuse the level headed folks of being haters. UW, you are slowing losing it it. You are reasonable on most things, but why would you be so dismissive of reasoned criticism of BHO? Haha...you mean "slowly" losing it Win? Maybe I am. I'm done with the Poli side. Burnt out by the predictable far right echo chamber. Good luck with Trump and Cruz. The Right will get destroyed in the general. Only reasonable guys are Kasich and even Lindsay Graham is sounding like a normal human. Maybe even Christie. A lot of my "moderate" to left leaning friends would vote for Kasich if they had to vote Republican. Run Cruz (Trump will drop out and doesn't even want the job) and you will never win another US election... the 1950's are gone and never were as good as you think. |
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Post by aztecwin on Dec 4, 2015 16:15:01 GMT -8
I think we see what is going on here. Unable to respond in a logical way so you accuse the level headed folks of being haters. UW, you are slowing losing it it. You are reasonable on most things, but why would you be so dismissive of reasoned criticism of BHO? Haha...you mean "slowly" losing it Win? Maybe I am. I'm done with the Poli side. Burnt out by the predictable far right echo chamber. Good luck with Trump and Cruz. The Right will get destroyed in the general. Only reasonable guys are Kasich and even Lindsay Graham is sounding like a normal human. Maybe even Christie. A lot of my "moderate" to left leaning friends would vote for Kasich if they had to vote Republican. Run Cruz (Trump will drop out and doesn't even want the job) and you will never win another US election... the 1950's are gone and never were as good as you think. Well, maybe both. Slowing and slowly.  You are acting like one of those debate people who answer what they want and not the question asked. Why are you dismissive of reasoned criticism of BHO? By now you must recognize his many faults. |
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