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Post by retiredaztec on Sept 16, 2015 8:16:21 GMT -8
All of you want a better football team. I do also. We all know that the newspaper, players parents, recruits and other schools read our board. We represent SDSU. But I don't think we represent the fans. I admit that the fans around me have been season ticket holders for 20 years or more (43 for me), but none of them want to fire Rocky. Yet on this forum, most people want to fire Rocky. I get that some people feel better complaining. I get that everyone can have an opinion, no matter how ill informed. What I don't get is why we would want to get negative comments about this board in the newspaper, insult players who support Rocky, discourage recruits from coming here and give other schools ammunition to recruit players. "I believe" is positive and pulls us together. Do any of you believe that the football team is worst since Rocky got here? Since when did it become a sin to post objective criticism on a board that is driven by OPINIONS? Certainly age becomes a factor when there are those of us that have put up with decades of Aztec football underachievement, (pretty good, huh?). Regarding recruits, a good analogy would be the Manning brothers. My admiration for Peyton involved a belief the he could walk into a crap fest and help make it better, (which he did). Eli, on the other hand, wanted no part of that challenge and with daddy's help was able to move to a program that was one competent QB away from championship level. At State you're going to have players that come because they believe they can make a difference, or players that really have no place else to go. But to get the former over the latter you need to have the kind of leadership that ATTRACTS these kind of players. And I can all but guarantee you, these kinds of players couldn't give a crap about what we BELIEVE TO BE, that we post on this board. Regarding Rocky being Rocky, I'll say it again. Though the program has improved under his watch, the bar was set really low. It is no where near what one with an I.Q. above 50 would call a qualified success, based on quality wins, bowl games, status and increased fan support. But, again, if the community is willing to REDEFINE success as it relates to Aztec football, than there's no problem here. My other alma mater has a game this weekend that frankly terrifies me. They're playing a program that always used State as their personal punching bag and has generated nationwide interest with two improbable wins. Vegas Bowl, spare me. Meanwhile State will be hosting a program that will excite maybe 25-30 thousand, hopefully more. And who's fault is that? |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 16, 2015 8:49:12 GMT -8
The reason I don't believe that parents and recruits put any real stock in message board comments is because they have participated on them.
This is the first generation of parents that has first hand knowledge in what message boards are. Its not like 15 years ago when parents hadn't participated. Now parents know. They're savvy, not ignorant or naive. They know to take comments on a message board with a huge grain of salt.
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Post by sdcoug on Sept 16, 2015 10:21:26 GMT -8
The reason I don't believe that parents and recruits put any real stock in message board comments is because they have participated on them.
This is the first generation of parents that has first hand knowledge in what message boards are. Its not like 15 years ago when parents hadn't participated. Now parents know. They're savvy, not ignorant or naive. They know to take comments on a message board with a huge grain of salt. Have no doubt SOME parents have participated in message boards & put zero stock into what some over jealous fanatic has to say. I'm sure you have anecdotal evidence to support this.
However, as you've admitted, participation in sports message boards represents a very small percentage of the population. Internet research, however, is very prevalent, as just as there are SOME who have participated in message boards there are MANY who have not. And will not. But they will conduct research to get a feel for what the coaches aren't telling them, and several on this board have mentioned first hand experiences with parents who have and do get a feel for the fan base vibe in this manner. It only takes 1 or 2 parents reacting negatively & influencing their kids to have a negative impact on recruiting. It doesn't take the masses. You trust your anecdotal experiences, but dismiss others.
Again, it's not THE deciding factor, but it definitely CAN be a factor for SOME people. More so parents than recruits, and parents can steer their kid in one direction or another. They want to know about things that they can't get from the administration, such as coaching stability, overall fan support, the direction of the program, etc. Those ARE important in the recruiting process, and research is information, even if biased.
Where it's most likely to come into play is when the overall tonality of a board slants towards the negative. There will always be the over jealous fanatics, which most ignore. But when the general tonality of a board slants negative it can & has played a role. When you have "moderators" who lean negative and go out of their way to change posts, it's not surprising to see the overall tone slant in that direction. Which this board definitely has. Hell, several posts in this thread is about YOU, a moderator on an Aztec "fan" website, pushing his own agenda, rather than maintaining any level of neutrality.
As someone who has designed surveys for nearly 30 years I get why you would want to change the poll. However, half the polls on this site are biased on nature and I haven't seen those altered. Yet you decided to push your own agenda. All you had to do is say "I'd add a 3rd option - no impact either way" and moved on.
I have no doubt several parents and most recruits think nothing about what a moron on a message board has to say about the team, the coach, or the administration. However, I also know that some do use forums such as these for information and when it starts to slant negative, even if due to just a few people posting very often, it does have an impact. Anything that has a negative impact on recruiting can start a snowball effect, and thus does hurt the program overall. Even if just a little.
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Post by zurac315 on Sept 16, 2015 10:29:38 GMT -8
If they read the board of course they will be affected. Hell, I am affected by the constant negativity. Of course I am also affected by the fact that the students, the faculty, and the vast majority of the alumni don't give a damn. They used to. They don't any longer. So, how's that for negativity.
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Post by sdcoug on Sept 16, 2015 10:34:25 GMT -8
If they read the board of course they will be affected. Hell, I am affected by the constant negativity. Of course I am also affected by the fact that the students, the faculty, and the vast majority of the alumni don't give a damn. They used to. They don't any longer. So, how's that for negativity. And many will tell you otherwise. How's that for positivity.
Everyone has an OPINION; if or how the choose to express it is their choice.
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Post by zurac315 on Sept 16, 2015 10:39:37 GMT -8
If they read the board of course they will be affected. Hell, I am affected by the constant negativity. Of course I am also affected by the fact that the students, the faculty, and the vast majority of the alumni don't give a damn. They used to. They don't any longer. So, how's that for negativity. And many will tell you otherwise. How's that for positivity.
Everyone has an OPINION; if or how the choose to express it is their choice.
How many of them show up? |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 16, 2015 10:51:11 GMT -8
The reason I don't believe that parents and recruits put any real stock in message board comments is because they have participated on them.
This is the first generation of parents that has first hand knowledge in what message boards are. Its not like 15 years ago when parents hadn't participated. Now parents know. They're savvy, not ignorant or naive. They know to take comments on a message board with a huge grain of salt. Have no doubt SOME parents have participated in message boards & put zero stock into what some over jealous fanatic has to say. I'm sure you have anecdotal evidence to support this.
However, as you've admitted, participation in sports message boards represents a very small percentage of the population. Internet research, however, is very prevalent, as just as there are SOME who have participated in message boards there are MANY who have not. And will not. But they will conduct research to get a feel for what the coaches aren't telling them, and several on this board have mentioned first hand experiences with parents who have and do get a feel for the fan base vibe in this manner. It only takes 1 or 2 parents reacting negatively & influencing their kids to have a negative impact on recruiting. It doesn't take the masses. You trust your anecdotal experiences, but dismiss others.
Again, it's not THE deciding factor, but it definitely CAN be a factor for SOME people. More so parents than recruits, and parents can steer their kid in one direction or another. They want to know about things that they can't get from the administration, such as coaching stability, overall fan support, the direction of the program, etc. Those ARE important in the recruiting process, and research is information, even if biased.
Where it's most likely to come into play is when the overall tonality of a board slants towards the negative. There will always be the over jealous fanatics, which most ignore. But when the general tonality of a board slants negative it can & has played a role. When you have "moderators" who lean negative and go out of their way to change posts, it's not surprising to see the overall tone slant in that direction. Which this board definitely has. Hell, several posts in this thread is about YOU, a moderator on an Aztec "fan" website, pushing his own agenda, rather than maintaining any level of neutrality.
As someone who has designed surveys for nearly 30 years I get why you would want to change the poll. However, half the polls on this site are biased on nature and I haven't seen those altered. Yet you decided to push your own agenda. All you had to do is say "I'd add a 3rd option - no impact either way" and moved on.
I have no doubt several parents and most recruits think nothing about what a moron on a message board has to say about the team, the coach, or the administration. However, I also know that some do use forums such as these for information and when it starts to slant negative, even if due to just a few people posting very often, it does have an impact. Anything that has a negative impact on recruiting can start a snowball effect, and thus does hurt the program overall. Even if just a little.
While many parents may not have participated on or read sports message boards, most of them would have participated in some kind of message board (entertainment... movies, music, whatever), and as someone who has been active on over a dozen boards over the last 15 years I can honestly tell you they're all the same. This one isn't any different than any of the others I've experienced. |
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Post by sdcoug on Sept 16, 2015 10:57:22 GMT -8
And many will tell you otherwise. How's that for positivity.
Everyone has an OPINION; if or how the choose to express it is their choice.
How many of them show up? Nearly 49k last week, including one of the largest student sections I've seen in a while. That's all we have to go on this year.
Last year attendance was slightly down (by 800 tickets a game), as was the entire conference and all of college football as it has been for a few years, yet we're among the leaders in attendance (3rd I believe) within the MWC.
Boise only drew 26k for the conference championship game, a game which put them in the Fiesta bowl. Attendance is an issue everywhere, but that doesn't mean interest is declining everywhere. College football has never been more popular, and our ratings in the SD market are still pretty strong.
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Post by zurac315 on Sept 16, 2015 11:06:24 GMT -8
Ok, then how did Boise improve their football program and why can't we. It can't be magic. I know they decided to improve it and did so. Why not us?  ?? |
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Post by sdcoug on Sept 16, 2015 11:18:30 GMT -8
Have no doubt SOME parents have participated in message boards & put zero stock into what some over jealous fanatic has to say. I'm sure you have anecdotal evidence to support this.
However, as you've admitted, participation in sports message boards represents a very small percentage of the population. Internet research, however, is very prevalent, as just as there are SOME who have participated in message boards there are MANY who have not. And will not. But they will conduct research to get a feel for what the coaches aren't telling them, and several on this board have mentioned first hand experiences with parents who have and do get a feel for the fan base vibe in this manner. It only takes 1 or 2 parents reacting negatively & influencing their kids to have a negative impact on recruiting. It doesn't take the masses. You trust your anecdotal experiences, but dismiss others.
Again, it's not THE deciding factor, but it definitely CAN be a factor for SOME people. More so parents than recruits, and parents can steer their kid in one direction or another. They want to know about things that they can't get from the administration, such as coaching stability, overall fan support, the direction of the program, etc. Those ARE important in the recruiting process, and research is information, even if biased.
Where it's most likely to come into play is when the overall tonality of a board slants towards the negative. There will always be the over jealous fanatics, which most ignore. But when the general tonality of a board slants negative it can & has played a role. When you have "moderators" who lean negative and go out of their way to change posts, it's not surprising to see the overall tone slant in that direction. Which this board definitely has. Hell, several posts in this thread is about YOU, a moderator on an Aztec "fan" website, pushing his own agenda, rather than maintaining any level of neutrality.
As someone who has designed surveys for nearly 30 years I get why you would want to change the poll. However, half the polls on this site are biased on nature and I haven't seen those altered. Yet you decided to push your own agenda. All you had to do is say "I'd add a 3rd option - no impact either way" and moved on.
I have no doubt several parents and most recruits think nothing about what a moron on a message board has to say about the team, the coach, or the administration. However, I also know that some do use forums such as these for information and when it starts to slant negative, even if due to just a few people posting very often, it does have an impact. Anything that has a negative impact on recruiting can start a snowball effect, and thus does hurt the program overall. Even if just a little.
While many parents may not have participated on or read sports message boards, most of them would have participated in some kind of message board (entertainment... movies, music, whatever), and as someone who has been active on over a dozen boards over the last 15 years I can honestly tell you they're all the same. This one isn't any different than any of the others I've experienced. I've been active on several boards as well, as I'm sure most on this board have, so you're not alone. So please don't think you know more than most on this board. I quit going to another sports forum due to it slanting too much towards the negative - obnoxious negativity can get tiresome just as obnoxious positivity can do the same. As a result, those who lean the opposite direction will quit going to those boards, thus making the slant more pronounced. In fact, there is another Aztec board which doesn't have near the negativity as this, so to say they're all the same is ridiculous. Like people gravitate to like boards.
To paraphrase someone I respect on this board, we have a few posters who are constantly posting extreme negativity such as firing the coach before the season even starts or after one loss on the road. Over & over & over... Can you imagine if the positive posters went over the top & constantly posted to give Rocky an extension or a raise after every win? Negativity tends to go to greater extremes than positivity.
My company actually works with a company that tracks tonality on our clients message boards, as well as within the press, and use those to determine their impact against perceived corporate performance measures. Not all boards are created equal.
I can also tell you WITHOUT A DOUBT, based on actual online statistics, that more use the internet for research purposes than those who participate in sports or any topic specific message boards, and sports boards vary significantly from travel, product & other boards. This isn't Facebook or Yelp, or even a news site. So there definitely are differences. You don't find airline message board participants thinking they know more than the pilots like you find on sports boards when it comes to thinking they know more than the AD or coaching staff.
I can also tell you, from first hand experience in conversations with parents, that many do NOT participate in sports forums but they DO monitor information on a program in the press and on boards & use them to get a pulse, which ultimately may influence their decision.
You have first hand knowledge of SOME parents who are not impacted by boards; I, as have others within this thread, have first hand knowledge of SOME parents who ARE impacted by boards. If your conclusion from that is message boards have no impact, that's your choice. I draw a different conclusion.
We can agree to disagree as a result.
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Post by sdcoug on Sept 16, 2015 11:23:12 GMT -8
Ok, then how did Boise improve their football program and why can't we. It can't be magic. I know they decided to improve it and did so. Why not us? ?? You stated that no one cares, which is rebutted, and now you want to go back 10+ years & see how BSU changed their program? That's a whole other thread, which has been hashed over many times.
We have a history of losing prior to 2010; Boise has a history on winning since long before that. Things don't change overnight. Start there, but to make a blanket statement with nothing to back it up is what I addressed.
BTW, as is obvious by the fact we've accomplished what few programs have, SDSU DID make a decision to improve their football program.
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Post by McQuervo on Sept 16, 2015 12:19:39 GMT -8
I would like to ask any of you whom responded:
Did you or your Son get recruited out of HS or JC?
Did you or your Son have experience playing College Ball?
Simple question. If the answer is no to both, you have no business responding to this topic.
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Post by dmilesai on Sept 16, 2015 12:33:24 GMT -8
Yes, they definitely hurt recruiting. I've had recruits tell me that negative comments on message boards negatively impacted their opinion of a school and its respective fan base.
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Post by zurac315 on Sept 16, 2015 12:48:04 GMT -8
I would like to ask any of you whom responded: Did you or your Son get recruited out of HS or JC? Did you or your Son have experience playing College Ball? Simple question. If the answer is no to both, you have no business responding to this topic. You have no business telling people who can respond and who cannot. |
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Post by zurac315 on Sept 16, 2015 12:49:17 GMT -8
Yes, they definitely hurt recruiting. I've had recruits tell me that negative comments on message boards negatively impacted their opinion of a school and its respective fan base. It's just so obvious. The poison on this board and the way it is expressed has to affect the reader. |
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Post by McQuervo on Sept 16, 2015 13:38:47 GMT -8
I would like to ask any of you whom responded: Did you or your Son get recruited out of HS or JC? Did you or your Son have experience playing College Ball? Simple question. If the answer is no to both, you have no business responding to this topic. You have no business telling people who can respond and who cannot. You are correct Sir, my apologies. Why let logic get in the way of emotion? |
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Post by Luchador El Guerrero Azteca on Sept 16, 2015 15:56:29 GMT -8
Recruiting is about a vibe; often a school can overcome negativity on a message board, but when push comes to shove it definitely can have an influence if 2 schools are similar.
And I firmly believe that is ludicrous. Completely absurd. Most people don't even know Aztec Mesa (or any other message board for college athletics) exists. We have a couple hundred active members out of a community of two million people. It's not like word is spreading like wildfire... And even if we were the biggest thing since sliced bread we are still just fans voicing opinions. I know that supporters of the current regime want to squash dissent, but this has just gotten ridiculous. Because the writer of the column is a member or a lurker here. His points are almost verbatim what some of Rocky's most ardent supporters have been posting here for the last 3 years. The last place an intelligent person should seek out information about athletics at any university is from a message board. You don't know who is posting on a message board and anyone claiming to have inside information is questionable at best because of the anonymity of message boards. Not exactly the most reliable of sources. Lunatics? It was the AD who was the lunatic when we were trying to get rid of CHUCK Long. He stubbornly held on to his hire and didn't want to let him go - but the, "Lunatics," forced his hand. Jeff Schemmel didn't want to fire Chuck. But the message board fans went on a letter writing (and e-mail) campaign going over his head, and the boosters let him know that they wouldn't support keeping Chuck, either. It isn't accurate (or reasonable) to say that people who are able to point out multiple specific, logical reasons why they won't support a coach beyond a certain point are lunatics. Keep trying to convince yourself of that. |
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Post by zurac315 on Sept 16, 2015 16:08:29 GMT -8
The reason I don't believe that parents and recruits put any real stock in message board comments is because they have participated on them. This is the first generation of parents that has first hand knowledge in what message boards are. Its not like 15 years ago when parents hadn't participated. Now parents know. They're savvy, not ignorant or naive. They know to take comments on a message board with a huge grain of salt. Well, the voters on this issue seem to think that you are wrong. |
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Post by zurac315 on Sept 16, 2015 16:20:07 GMT -8
Ok, then how did Boise improve their football program and why can't we. It can't be magic. I know they decided to improve it and did so. Why not us? ?? You stated that no one cares, which is rebutted, and now you want to go back 10+ years & see how BSU changed their program? That's a whole other thread, which has been hashed over many times.
We have a history of losing prior to 2010; Boise has a history on winning since long before that. Things don't change overnight. Start there, but to make a blanket statement with nothing to back it up is what I addressed.
BTW, as is obvious by the fact we've accomplished what few programs have, SDSU DID make a decision to improve their football program.
We had a long history of winning long before Boise did. What happened to that? Why was 16 years of great football lost at SDSU? We had a great record between 1961 and 1977 and then it went poof, basically. We won one WAC title when many predicted that we would dominate the conference. Even Wyoming had two WAC titles. Fresno State has been more successful than we have. Things were good for Aztec football for many, many years and then it all stopped. Why is that? The prevailing wisdom on this board seems to be that it stopped because we have good weather and a beach. |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 16, 2015 16:21:46 GMT -8
The reason I don't believe that parents and recruits put any real stock in message board comments is because they have participated on them. This is the first generation of parents that has first hand knowledge in what message boards are. Its not like 15 years ago when parents hadn't participated. Now parents know. They're savvy, not ignorant or naive. They know to take comments on a message board with a huge grain of salt. Well, the voters on this issue seem to think that you are wrong. Some. A majority, even. But by no means does that mean, "Everyone." There is a fairly large group of board members that do not believe that message boards can significantly influence a recruit. But what are we supposed to do if we believe that there is a problem? Remain silent? Everything's hunky-dory!! The whole point of a message board is to post opinions. If it's all the same positive opinion then why have the board? To pat each other on the back and talk about how great things are? Some of us just get tired of reading, "Wait until next year," only to find out the next year that that same person says, "No, not this year, next year." Next year never comes. Negativity is on EVERY sports message board. Every single one. Unless you're talking about a team that has won every game by a wide margin you're going to read negative comments. |
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