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Post by myownwords on Aug 28, 2015 9:25:01 GMT -8
I don't know where to start. My questions or musings were rhetorical. I see you attempted to assert that you have "insider knowledge", but I'm afraid your beliefs do not constitute "facts", and quite frankly I don't have any confidence in your assertions. Sorry. Nothing you've said changes any "realities" as you have in no way changed my points or comments. Regarding Hoke, yes everyone knows that. What does that have to do with "secrets"? So concluding, you have NO PROOF that anyone has EVER sought Rocky, yet you insist there must have been secret attempts---that remain secret to this day---yet, that very absence is to me, corroboration that he has had no suitors. We disagree. But you insist that I should "give up", in response to your self-described "realities". Your "facts" don't constitute reality, no matter how many times you utter proclamations. Predictable response, as usual. Just sharing experiences & actual first hand knowledge, as others have done as well within this thread, which you refuse to believe. That's your right, and not surprised at all. It's who you are.
Yes, only RL & those he confides in actually know if he has or hasn't been approached, which is the point. Some jump to conclusions, even without any information (that would be you in case you missed it); others don't.
... Sorry, I have no reason to believe you on this matter. So that's kind of that. If it were true, that he told you this--in confidence---then you expect me to believe that YOU are the only one he told? How about the people doing the approaching? Can you say that they have told no one? Are you that vain that you think he would have ONLY told you? You see, if he's told others, then it would have been in the paper. THAT is reality. And by the way, why are you revealing confidential remarks? Sorry, just can't go there with you. I'm sure you understand.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2015 9:24:49 GMT -8
Nice, where did you play and what sport? I'm not missing your point, but obviously you are missing mine, and that's ok. You value your own opinion over all others, even if others have more direct experience than yourself Yes I guess I did miss your point. My opinion about Rocky can't be changed by your assertions, or implications that he was pursued through secret alliances and outreach. Until there are valid reports otherwise, he remains the Never Been Poached Coach. If he all of a sudden becomes Petersen-esque, or a trim twin of Patterson, then THAT will change my opinion. That's right, own your glass half empty, assume the worst until forced to acknowledge otherwise approach. That's what a legit Aztec fan would do...oh wait.
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Post by myownwords on Aug 28, 2015 9:26:34 GMT -8
Yes I guess I did miss your point. My opinion about Rocky can't be changed by your assertions, or implications that he was pursued through secret alliances and outreach. Until there are valid reports otherwise, he remains the Never Been Poached Coach. If he all of a sudden becomes Petersen-esque, or a trim twin of Patterson, then THAT will change my opinion. That's right, own your glass half empty, assume the worst until forced to acknowledge otherwise approach. That's what a legit Aztec fan would do...oh wait. I assume the "worst", I would say "reality", because it is obvious to me and others that he is the wrong coach for the job. At least wrong for those without LE.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Aug 28, 2015 9:34:35 GMT -8
You do realize that only a fraction of those who get approached for a job actually gets reported, right? The only one's which do are those where the coach actually is interested & interviews for the position; they want to renegotiate & use being approached as a bargaining chip; or they're so insecure they leak it that School X approached them to garner more attention. So you're going to "ass ume" that if Rocky didn't fall into 1 of those categories you're conclusion is correct? Interesting. Assuming something that may never have happened.
It could simply be a) Rocky was happy at his alma mater & really wanted them to succeed, so turned down immediately anyone expressing interest; and b) he's happy at SDSU and, as he's stated often, just loves hanging out in OB & flying under the radar. Personally, I admire that.
You on the other hand like "leakers" and those seeking to move up rather than stay loyal. Understood.
I'm sorry, this is obviously causing you a great deal of discomfort. You are somehow "closer" to our program stumblers, than I imagined. Not sure what you mean about "leakers". I was referring to news which can't be kept secret very long. Rocky was "loyal" to "his" school...until he quit. Broken free of the albatross, still no one came calling. You can chose to believe whatever you like, but to me, the overwhelming evidence points to Rocky's star having dropped to "dwarf" status, sometime in his 3rd or 4th year at New Mexico. And pick whatever year you think has been his best year, still no one knocking on his chamber door. In this day of rampant social media, is there really any chance at all, that an approach by another school would ever be secret for more than a few days? We had people following Hoke's plane for god's sake. I agree that Rocky Long will not be named to the FB coaching hall of fame. Still, some on AztecMesa seem determined to criticize the man repeatedly and, more importantly, without justification. There surely cannot be anyone on this or any other college fan site who confuses New Mexico with Notre Dame or Nebraska in terms of football status. To be blunt, New Mexico has a very strong basketball tradition and virtually none on the gridiron. Despite that, Rocky managed to win 64 games in 11 seasons in Albuquerque, the most wins by far of any HC in New Mexico's history. Furthermore, if you exclude his first three seasons, you will find that his record in the last 8 seasons was 53-46, a winning percentage of .535. Then add his four years here and you find that in his last 12 seasons as a HC, Rocky has won 85 and lost just 66. That's a percentage of .563, which is far, far better than hundreds of coaches who have lead DI programs for a few seasons before demotion to a life of assistant coaching. Rocky's biggest negative is his very poor bowl record. Also, he has not won many games against today's P5 schools. So what is Rocky Long? He's a veteran coach who did a more than respectable job at a school with no record of achievement in football, and who has then done reasonably well in what is surely his last coaching job. It's the "reasonably well" part that makes me long for a new and better coach. If Rocky can string together two or three 10 or 11 win seasons before retiring here, he will have served this program well. But even if that becomes reality, we will need a new coach before too long, and that choice had better be a good one! In short, I think Rocky Long is a good coach, but probably not good enough to do what Urban Meyer did at Utah or Garry Patterson did at TCU. I'm just afraid that the school will not have the fortitude to make a change if this year's record is less than spectacular (i.e,, 8-5 or 7-6). The problem, of course, is that a "less than spectacular" record, even if above .500, is not what we need. Well, it's not what we need if we want to displace BSU as the best of this "less than spectacular" conference. (Some thoughts about why Rocky has not been hired by a higher ranked program. Frankly, I am somewhat surprised that Rocky stayed at New Mexico so long. I don't know whether that was because no one wanted him or because he simply was happy in Albuquerque. Anybody with a program that needed a boost in those days (Kansas, Indiana, Colorado, Vanderbilt, etc.) could have done worse than hire Rocky after he had started getting the Lobos into multiple bowl games. As for his tenure here, I suspect that his age has been a factor. I can imagine an AD at a school looking for a new coach might say to himself, Yeah, Rocky Long looks like a pretty solid coach, but he's already past 60. We need someone who will stay a decade ore more. AzWm
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Post by myownwords on Aug 28, 2015 9:42:48 GMT -8
I'm sorry, this is obviously causing you a great deal of discomfort. You are somehow "closer" to our program stumblers, than I imagined. Not sure what you mean about "leakers". I was referring to news which can't be kept secret very long. Rocky was "loyal" to "his" school...until he quit. Broken free of the albatross, still no one came calling. You can chose to believe whatever you like, but to me, the overwhelming evidence points to Rocky's star having dropped to "dwarf" status, sometime in his 3rd or 4th year at New Mexico. And pick whatever year you think has been his best year, still no one knocking on his chamber door. In this day of rampant social media, is there really any chance at all, that an approach by another school would ever be secret for more than a few days? We had people following Hoke's plane for god's sake. I agree that Rocky Long will not be named to the FB coaching hall of fame. Still, some on AztecMesa seem determined to criticize the man repeatedly and, more importantly, without justification. There surely cannot be anyone on this or any other college fan site who confuses New Mexico with Notre Dame or Nebraska in terms of football status. To be blunt, New Mexico has a very strong basketball tradition and virtually none on the gridiron. Despite that, Rocky managed to win 64 games in 11 seasons in Albuquerque, the most wins by far of any HC in New Mexico's history. Furthermore, if you exclude his first three seasons, you will find that his record in the last 8 seasons was 53-46, a winning percentage of .535. Then add his four years here and you find that in his last 12 seasons as a HC, Rocky has won 85 and lost just 66. That's a percentage of .563, which is far, far better than hundreds of coaches who have lead DI programs for a few seasons before demotion to a life of assistant coaching. Rocky's biggest negative is his very poor bowl record. Also, he has not won many games against today's P5 schools. So what is Rocky Long? He's a veteran coach who did a more than respectable job at a school with no record of achievement in football, and who has then done reasonably well in what is surely his last coaching job. It's the "reasonably well" part that makes me long for a new and better coach. If Rocky can string together two or three 10 or 11 win seasons before retiring here, he will have served this program well. But even if that becomes reality, we will need a new coach before too long, and that choice had better be a good one! In short, I think Rocky Long is a good coach, but probably not good enough to do what Urban Meyer did at Utah or Garry Patterson did at TCU. I'm just afraid that the school will not have the fortitude to make a change if this year's record is less than spectacular (i.e,, 8-5 or 7-6). The problem, of course, is that a "less than spectacular" record, even if above .500, is not what we need. Well, it's not what we need if we want to displace BSU as the best of this "less than spectacular" conference. (Some thoughts about why Rocky has not been hired by a higher ranked program. Frankly, I am somewhat surprised that Rocky stayed at New Mexico so long. I don't know whether that was because no one wanted him or because he simply was happy in Albuquerque. Anybody with a program that needed a boost in those days (Kansas, Indiana, Colorado, Vanderbilt, etc.) could have done worse than hire Rocky after he had started getting the Lobos into multiple bowl games. As for his tenure here, I suspect that his age has been a factor. I can imagine an AD at a school looking for a new coach might say to himself, Yeah, Rocky Long looks like a pretty solid coach, but he's already past 60. We need someone who will stay a decade ore more. AzWm Well presented and you choose to present him in a favorable light. I agree with some of your characterizations, in this case, and the many times in the past you've recounted his "heroics". Turns out, we have no choice. We must accept what we're being dealt. I hope Rocky, you and his supporters, show me as very, VERY wrong. That would be great and I'll gladly take the arrows from all of you who disagree. Part of life. However, since there is no logical, or concrete reason that he will be anything more than what he is now, I feel the program will be on life support when he finally quits.
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Post by sdcoug on Aug 28, 2015 9:44:24 GMT -8
Predictable response, as usual. Just sharing experiences & actual first hand knowledge, as others have done as well within this thread, which you refuse to believe. That's your right, and not surprised at all. It's who you are.
Yes, only RL & those he confides in actually know if he has or hasn't been approached, which is the point. Some jump to conclusions, even without any information (that would be you in case you missed it); others don't.
... Sorry, I have no reason to believe you on this matter. So that's kind of that. If it were true, that he told you this--in confidence---then you expect me to believe that YOU are the only one he told? How about the people doing the approaching? Can you say that they have told no one? Are you that vain that you think he would have ONLY told you? You see, if he's told others, then it would have been in the paper. THAT is reality. And by the way, why are you revealing confidential remarks? Sorry, just can't go there with you. I'm sure you understand.
So even if you don't believe me it comes down to this - only RL & those who he confides in actually know. Some jump to conclusions, even without info, & some don't. We know where you land. You're drawing conclusions based on your own biases. It says a lot about you.
You're right - I don't know he's been approached, but at the same time I'm not saying he has either. I'm just saying you're making assumptions that very well may not be true. I'm not making any assumptions; just not drawing conclusions because I don't know. You don't know, yet are drawing conclusions. Even you can tell the difference, hopefully.
I only mentioned experiences with 2 different people, not one, and they confided knowing I wouldn't name names. I've heard several other accounts as well of names not being leaked. Have they told others - I'm sure they have, including a couple others there at the time. But with the same stipulations at the time, and people they'd trust, or long enough after it happened to the point its no longer relevant. Hence, those they confided in, like Rocky. And no paper is going to quote me or any random person, even if I did say something, as long as the 2 primary parties - the AD & the person contacted (agent/coach) deny everything, especially if we're talking 6-months or so after it happened. Hopefully you're smart enough to figure that out.
Anyway, continue making stuff up & using that as your ASSumed facts.
A wise person once said you can't teach a pig to sing... : )
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Post by myownwords on Aug 28, 2015 9:58:23 GMT -8
Okay. I'm just not up to your intellectual standards. But I promise to try harder.
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Post by sdcoug on Aug 28, 2015 10:08:26 GMT -8
I'm sorry, this is obviously causing you a great deal of discomfort. You are somehow "closer" to our program stumblers, than I imagined. Not sure what you mean about "leakers". I was referring to news which can't be kept secret very long. Rocky was "loyal" to "his" school...until he quit. Broken free of the albatross, still no one came calling. You can chose to believe whatever you like, but to me, the overwhelming evidence points to Rocky's star having dropped to "dwarf" status, sometime in his 3rd or 4th year at New Mexico. And pick whatever year you think has been his best year, still no one knocking on his chamber door. In this day of rampant social media, is there really any chance at all, that an approach by another school would ever be secret for more than a few days? We had people following Hoke's plane for god's sake. I agree that Rocky Long will not be named to the FB coaching hall of fame. Still, some on AztecMesa seem determined to criticize the man repeatedly and, more importantly, without justification. There surely cannot be anyone on this or any other college fan site who confuses New Mexico with Notre Dame or Nebraska in terms of football status. To be blunt, New Mexico has a very strong basketball tradition and virtually none on the gridiron. Despite that, Rocky managed to win 64 games in 11 seasons in Albuquerque, the most wins by far of any HC in New Mexico's history. Furthermore, if you exclude his first three seasons, you will find that his record in the last 8 seasons was 53-46, a winning percentage of .535. Then add his four years here and you find that in his last 12 seasons as a HC, Rocky has won 85 and lost just 66. That's a percentage of .563, which is far, far better than hundreds of coaches who have lead DI programs for a few seasons before demotion to a life of assistant coaching. Rocky's biggest negative is his very poor bowl record. Also, he has not won many games against today's P5 schools. So what is Rocky Long? He's a veteran coach who did a more than respectable job at a school with no record of achievement in football, and who has then done reasonably well in what is surely his last coaching job. It's the "reasonably well" part that makes me long for a new and better coach. If Rocky can string together two or three 10 or 11 win seasons before retiring here, he will have served this program well. But even if that becomes reality, we will need a new coach before too long, and that choice had better be a good one! In short, I think Rocky Long is a good coach, but probably not good enough to do what Urban Meyer did at Utah or Garry Patterson did at TCU. I'm just afraid that the school will not have the fortitude to make a change if this year's record is less than spectacular (i.e,, 8-5 or 7-6). The problem, of course, is that a "less than spectacular" record, even if above .500, is not what we need. Well, it's not what we need if we want to displace BSU as the best of this "less than spectacular" conference. (Some thoughts about why Rocky has not been hired by a higher ranked program. Frankly, I am somewhat surprised that Rocky stayed at New Mexico so long. I don't know whether that was because no one wanted him or because he simply was happy in Albuquerque. Anybody with a program that needed a boost in those days (Kansas, Indiana, Colorado, Vanderbilt, etc.) could have done worse than hire Rocky after he had started getting the Lobos into multiple bowl games. As for his tenure here, I suspect that his age has been a factor. I can imagine an AD at a school looking for a new coach might say to himself, Yeah, Rocky Long looks like a pretty solid coach, but he's already past 60. We need someone who will stay a decade ore more. AzWm A fair & balanced take. Disagree with a few things, but respect & understand your opinion.
A few comments: 1. Rocky would have been 55-56 after taking NM to 3 straight bowl games, and younger after he went 8-5 & the Vegas bowl. That's far from being too old for consideration. Even after he went 9-4 at 58 or so he's still relatively young in today's coaching world. This isn't 1980 - 60 is the new 50. 2. I don't think ANY AD thinks about a 10-year tenure in today's age, especially for the programs you mentioned. They'd even take someone who'd stay 4-5 years if it could get them jump started. I don't think anyone - coach or AD - thinks past a 5-year term initially any more, nor did they 6-7 years ago. 3. Even if they were looking for loyalty or a longer tenure, Rocky hadn't done anything that would lead any AD to think he's not loyal or a jumper like Graham at ASU was. 4. Alma maters can be a major pull for a coach
Agree, the bowl record hasn't been good. A made kick here/there, and it's better & more acceptable. I think had we made the kick to beat Navy many opinions would be a little different, which shows what a tight line coaches walk.
Hopefully we can turn that around. Beating P5's would be nice, but the match-ups have to be taken into account as well. Playing a UW in Boise this year is extremely different than playing at PSU or at Cal, especially when looking at the QB situation of all 3 teams and where the games are being played. There are different expectations, especially with the gap growing larger between G5's & P5's. If we'd had PSU here, last year, I'd actually like our chances, and Cal at home next year w/o Goff I believe is a little more realistic. I'm sure Vegas would back that line of thinking.
I'm hoping we see a few big seasons, whether that's 9, 10 or 11 wins, and a bowl win or two. If we lose at Boise in the conference championship & draw a very good Arizona in Vegas, for example, although I'd be disappointed it wouldn't be a bad loss to either. Sometimes it's about the match-ups.
We'll see how the season turns out & reevaluate at that time. If a change is made, or Rocky decides he's had enough, then we'll see what the next guy can do, and see if our PROGRAM is capable of going to the next level. Sometimes it's not about the HC; it's the program first, as well as the AC's. In the meantime, hopefully the fan base realizes they can influence recruiting, simply by donating and putting their butt in a seat. That we can control, and that can dictate the future of the program.
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