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Post by myownwords on Aug 2, 2015 16:01:20 GMT -8
Well, it's not a theory, it's opinion. Whether Coryell's wife, aunt, grandparents, or pets "loved" San Diego, is quite meaningless. Everyone loves San Diego. I have no knowledge of him "passing up" opportunities at other colleges. And if, they were real, were they from New Mexico? Or, Kansas State, or Utah? Doesn't matter, since we have very public, very "national" news of his "ambition" and leap over all other colleges---straight to the NFL. Now THAT is ambition and VERY NOT Rocky-esque, verdad? THAT is what ambition and passion look like---just ask any of the players. And if you're a coach of any other program except the top 10 or 15, "staying" because you "love it" is NOT believable, and THAT HC should retire and not seek another HC job---which of course, is exactly what Rocky told us about himself, before Hoke gave him another chance. There are many things that you "have no knowledge of" that are true none the less. This is just another one. I don't know how old you are or how long you've been following Aztec football. But, apparently you weren't around at the time. There were articles from time to time discussing other programs interest in Coryell. More importantly, Don told me about some of them. I was very close to the football program during the Coryell/Giibert years. From my discussions I believe he would have finished he career at SDSU if the student council hadn't killed his ability to recruit by eliminating pre-registration for athletes. He didn't want everything he spent years building destroyed by a small group of kids who were only here for a few years. He never would have gone to the NFL otherwise. So, did he suddenly become ambitious at that point? Making all coaches not in the top 10 or 15 retire permanently from coaching if they are staying where they are because they love it would create an enormous number of coaching vacancies all around the country. I suppose you believe that Steve Fisher should also retire and not seek another head coaching job. Sounds to me like sdcoug was right You obviously have chosen "Rocky's Road". I'm afraid you're in Sterk and Hirshman's camp. Good for you. Bad for us.
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Post by ab on Aug 2, 2015 16:06:04 GMT -8
Lugie's inability to recruit replacements for Marshall and Darnay was his biggest downfall. You would have thought we would have been in the running for the Top 10 RB and Top 10 WR after those years. He got canned in Dec 1993. In 1994, we has Az and Blackwell playing WR and Pittman at RB...he was not Faulk, but he had more than 1,400 yards. So it isn't like the rush game suffered. Justin Watson, a future Ram RB was on the roster. I'm not saying the RB/WR after Marshall/Darnay weren't effective but who were they? Look now at Hoops. Once you start getting 4 star players you had best keep getting them every year or the program will go down. Same for football, with all the publicity San Diego st got from Marshall and even Darnay, top ranked athletes from all over should have been our successful targets.
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Post by AzTex on Aug 2, 2015 16:33:20 GMT -8
There are many things that you "have no knowledge of" that are true none the less. This is just another one. I don't know how old you are or how long you've been following Aztec football. But, apparently you weren't around at the time. There were articles from time to time discussing other programs interest in Coryell. More importantly, Don told me about some of them. I was very close to the football program during the Coryell/Giibert years. From my discussions I believe he would have finished he career at SDSU if the student council hadn't killed his ability to recruit by eliminating pre-registration for athletes. He didn't want everything he spent years building destroyed by a small group of kids who were only here for a few years. He never would have gone to the NFL otherwise. So, did he suddenly become ambitious at that point? Making all coaches not in the top 10 or 15 retire permanently from coaching if they are staying where they are because they love it would create an enormous number of coaching vacancies all around the country. I suppose you believe that Steve Fisher should also retire and not seek another head coaching job. Sounds to me like sdcoug was right You obviously have chosen "Rocky's Road". I'm afraid you're in Sterk and Hirshman's camp. Good for you. Bad for us. SMH. Your favorite song must be One Note Samba because one note is all you have when discussing the Aztecs. In all this discussion I mentioned Rocky one time when I said, "I doubt that any of Rocky's players would question his ambition and passion." And I never mentioned anything about Sterk or Hirshman. All of this discussion refuting your opinion, by me and others, about coaches and ambition, and this is your conclusion. sigh
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Post by alamobruin on Aug 2, 2015 18:13:00 GMT -8
This is akin to saying if your wife is not a supermodel, you had better be constantly trading up, love and loyalty are not proper excuses for maintaining your marriage.
You're trying to suggest that ambition and drive are only relevant for coaches at the Top 10-15 programs? It would then follow that every other head coaching position is nothing more than a stepping stone to the big time. Why would you even worry about getting a coach with such ambition? If he is of the type you describe, he's not going to be your coach for very long if he achieves any modicum of success.
And what of those coaches who took smaller, less powerful programs and built them into NC contenders? Do they lack such ambition if they choose to stay with those institutions, and should they be relieved of their duties because they lack the ambition to "elevate" their careers by moving to more high-profile positions?
It is your choice to glean logic, or draw upon your own denial to infer whatever you like. Don't care. We have an HC that no one has ever hired away from either New Mexico (which some here think was his "Miracle") by many, many programs who could use a "miracle". He has continued his straight-line program to mediocrity here and those who share his low expectations will continue to defend him. Welcome to his club. I wasn't offering praise for Rocky Long, I was addressing your convoluted logic regarding the coaching profession. You had some glaringly wrong-headed assumptions in that post. As the son of a national championship coach, I know first-hand the considerations that a highly-driven, ambitious coach gives to his family, home and lifestyle when a big name comes calling. I've known plenty of great coaches who could win anywhere, who just would rather not coach in Anywhere.
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Post by adammclane on Aug 3, 2015 7:01:22 GMT -8
We play in a weak conference, don't have our own stadium, and have very few dedicated football resources. When I see "anti-Rocky" threads I wonder if people see the $500+ million infrastructure bill to get to the next level or not?
Without serious resources I don't see why Aztec football fans aren't THRILLED with a guy like Rocky Long who runs a clean program, recruits amazing young men on our campus as part of our community, and has gotten us to a bowl game every year of his tenure.
Personally, I think Rocky is great.
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Post by aztecfan1 on Aug 3, 2015 7:14:45 GMT -8
I echo your understanding of Rocky's value to SDSU. Sadly there are way too many uninformed posters on this board who understand little about CFB. Some even compare it to a corporation that has to double its profit each year or CEO gets fired. I enjoy the other board more and more. See you there.
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Post by FLAztec4Life on Aug 3, 2015 8:25:47 GMT -8
Rocky is a good coach, will he get us to the next level? I'm not sure. But, i know this....without him we wouldn't be where we are! We won't get to the next level till we start winning the games we are supposed to win. Not only win those, dominate those games. There is a reason why the PAC12 don't want us joining......because we don't win on a consistent basis. And even then they don't need us! Back to coach, be thankful for who we have, it could be worse...much worse. It's time for us to stop complaining about our team and support them, heck I'm in Florida and support them 24/7. People know of SDSU here.....and it's not just for basketball either.......
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Post by myownwords on Aug 3, 2015 9:19:14 GMT -8
You obviously have chosen "Rocky's Road". I'm afraid you're in Sterk and Hirshman's camp. Good for you. Bad for us. SMH. Your favorite song must be One Note Samba because one note is all you have when discussing the Aztecs. In all this discussion I mentioned Rocky one time when I said, "I doubt that any of Rocky's players would question his ambition and passion." And I never mentioned anything about Sterk or Hirshman. All of this discussion refuting your opinion, by me and others, about coaches and ambition, and this is your conclusion. sigh Your "refutations" only proved that you had not read my posts. But that's fine, you are entitled to remain a retro-booster
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Post by myownwords on Aug 3, 2015 9:23:17 GMT -8
Rocky is a good coach, will he get us to the next level? I'm not sure. But, i know this....without him we wouldn't be where we are! We won't get to the next level till we start winning the games we are supposed to win. Not only win those, dominate those games. There is a reason why the PAC12 don't want us joining......because we don't win on a consistent basis. And even then they don't need us! Back to coach, be thankful for who we have, it could be worse...much worse. It's time for us to stop complaining about our team and support them, heck I'm in Florida and support them 24/7. People know of SDSU here.....and it's not just for basketball either....... ...and it could be better, MUCH better. We might now be discussing realistically entering an upgrade in conferences IF we'd had real leadership running the football program over the past 5 years, instead of pretenders. But with the Three Stooges, we'll likely remain circling this cul-de-sac for years to come.
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Post by myownwords on Aug 3, 2015 9:26:18 GMT -8
I echo your understanding of Rocky's value to SDSU. Sadly there are way too many uninformed posters on this board who understand little about CFB. Some even compare it to a corporation that has to double its profit each year or CEO gets fired. I enjoy the other board more and more. See you there. It truly is charming and quaint that you should feel that only those like-minded posters (as you)feel they are the self-appointed guardians of the "knowledge trust". The true cognoscenti, sharing drinks and winks.
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Post by myownwords on Aug 3, 2015 9:31:33 GMT -8
It is your choice to glean logic, or draw upon your own denial to infer whatever you like. Don't care. We have an HC that no one has ever hired away from either New Mexico (which some here think was his "Miracle") by many, many programs who could use a "miracle". He has continued his straight-line program to mediocrity here and those who share his low expectations will continue to defend him. Welcome to his club. I wasn't offering praise for Rocky Long, I was addressing your convoluted logic regarding the coaching profession. You had some glaringly wrong-headed assumptions in that post. As the son of a national championship coach, I know first-hand the considerations that a highly-driven, ambitious coach gives to his family, home and lifestyle when a big name comes calling. I've known plenty of great coaches who could win anywhere, who just would rather not coach in Anywhere. I too was not praising Rocky. I did not---and as helpful advice--that perhaps your issue might be that you overloaded your college days with too much from the Sociology Department. Others found nothing "confusing" at all about the straight forward logic. I would recommend that you re-read them (if in fact you did at all) and then grab some worry beads. You may be over-stressing on my disapproval of our path, and distracted "leaders".
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Post by alamobruin on Aug 3, 2015 10:28:02 GMT -8
I wasn't offering praise for Rocky Long, I was addressing your convoluted logic regarding the coaching profession. You had some glaringly wrong-headed assumptions in that post. As the son of a national championship coach, I know first-hand the considerations that a highly-driven, ambitious coach gives to his family, home and lifestyle when a big name comes calling. I've known plenty of great coaches who could win anywhere, who just would rather not coach in Anywhere. I too was not praising Rocky. I did not---and as helpful advice--that perhaps your issue might be that you overloaded your college days with too much from the Sociology Department. Others found nothing "confusing" at all about the straight forward logic. I would recommend that you re-read them (if in fact you did at all) and then grab some worry beads. You may be over-stressing on my disapproval of our path, and distracted "leaders". I have no dog in this fight, so my stress level tends toward placid. One thing is certain from reading this forum, Long's coaching skills are not being judged based on the bargain-basement tools he's been given. If you are expecting him to drive some golden nails, don't supply him with a K-Mart hammer.
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Post by sdcoug on Aug 3, 2015 10:47:55 GMT -8
I too was not praising Rocky. I did not---and as helpful advice--that perhaps your issue might be that you overloaded your college days with too much from the Sociology Department. Others found nothing "confusing" at all about the straight forward logic. I would recommend that you re-read them (if in fact you did at all) and then grab some worry beads. You may be over-stressing on my disapproval of our path, and distracted "leaders". I have no dog in this fight, so my stress level tends toward placid. One thing is certain from reading this forum, Long's coaching skills are not being judged based on the bargain-basement tools he's been given. If you are expecting him to drive some golden nails, don't supply him with a K-Mart hammer. Very true. I always find it interesting when people say "we should be dominating" this conference. Based on what? Our superior facilities? Our superior base of donors and donations? Our superior revenue stream? Waves and sunshine doesn't define a dominating program. We're definitely heading in the right direction. We're creating a history of winning, following a decade of ineptness. We're matching other schools with TCoA financial aid (while some are not. We're expanding Fowler to at least help make it semi-competitive to other football facilities. Hopefully the stadium issue with the Chargers gets resolved shortly so we can figure out the best course of action to overcome that hurdle. We're going to continue to be f'd by the TV contract, at least in comparison to many other MWC programs.
But ultimately we need grow the Aztec club, and support the program and so we can provide Rocky (or whoever it may be 2-3 years from now) with more tools to compete. We've given Fisher the tools; now we need to do the same for football.
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Post by HighNTight on Aug 3, 2015 10:55:50 GMT -8
I have no dog in this fight, so my stress level tends toward placid. One thing is certain from reading this forum, Long's coaching skills are not being judged based on the bargain-basement tools he's been given. If you are expecting him to drive some golden nails, don't supply him with a K-Mart hammer. Very true. I always find it interesting when people say "we should be dominating" this conference. Based on what? Our superior facilities? Our superior base of donors and donations? Our superior revenue stream? Waves and sunshine doesn't define a dominating program. We're definitely heading in the right direction. We're creating a history of winning, following a decade of ineptness. We're matching other schools with TCoA financial aid (while some are not. We're expanding Fowler to at least help make it semi-competitive to other football facilities. Hopefully the stadium issue with the Chargers gets resolved shortly so we can figure out the best course of action to overcome that hurdle. We're going to continue to be f'd by the TV contract, at least in comparison to many other MWC programs.
But ultimately we need grow the Aztec club, and support the program and so we can provide Rocky (or whoever it may be 2-3 years from now) with more tools to compete. We've given Fisher the tools; now we need to do the same for football.
Mostly agree with everything here and will only say decades (with an "s") of ineptness -- as in more than one ... I will also add that people that want to specifically support the football program should look into the AFL (Aztecs Football Legacy) in addition to the Aztec Club.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Aug 3, 2015 10:58:43 GMT -8
We play in a weak conference, don't have our own stadium, and have very few dedicated football resources. When I see "anti-Rocky" threads I wonder if people see the $500+ million infrastructure bill to get to the next level or not? Without serious resources I don't see why Aztec football fans aren't THRILLED with a guy like Rocky Long who runs a clean program, recruits amazing young men on our campus as part of our community, and has gotten us to a bowl game every year of his tenure. Personally, I think Rocky is great. Well, I believe that Rocky Long is a very competent college football coach. Am I thrilled? Not really. Given the circumstances of Rocky's hiring, passing over him and looking around for a better coach would have been a real craps shoot. It was, after all, very late in the day and when you need a new football coach the more time you have to find a good replacement, the better. That's why you sometimes see a college fire a coach before the end of the current season. So, given those circumstances, promoting Rocky was a wise (if not ideal) move. So, how has Rocky done? Winning totals of 8, 9, 8, and 7. How many P5 teams played? 7 How many beaten? One. How many outright conference championships won? Zero. How many times played in MWC championship game? Zero. How many bowl games played? 4. How many won? One. How many P5 level bowl games played? Zero. Sure, those stats would make fans in Albuquerque or Las Vegas drool. However, a school with aspirations of joining the elite of college football will have to do much better if it is not to remain bogged down among the mediocrity of the Group of Five conferences. Right now, how we do compared with BSU is the appropriate measuring stick. Well, here's how BSU has done in the four seasons of '11 through '14. W/L record: 43-10 Championships: One How many P5 teams played? 8 How many beaten? Four. (This includes bowl games.) Bowl record: 3-1 How many P5 level bowl games played? One. (They won that one; also played P5 teams in all four of their bowls, losing only to Oregon State.) So, as you can seen, we are not even close to Boise State, and the Broncos themselves are still not considered members of the P5. Back to Rocky. I agree that we were lucky to have him available to replace Brady Hoke. (Heaven only knows who we would have had to settle for had he not been on site!) But the comparison I just listed indicates that Rocky is not likely to be the one to elevate this program even to the level of the best school in this shabby conference. The downward W/L trend of the last three seasons is worrisome. So, in conclusion, I believe strongly that it will be up a new coach to make this football program relevant nationally. (By which I mean a program that is routinely listed among the Top-25 in all the college football preview magazines.) If Rocky can win 10 or more this season, terrific. If he wins only 7 or 8, don't you think that it's time to look for another coach? I trust that our AD is keeping track of a number of promising younger head coaches, perhaps some who are coaching in the FCS. If not, he is failing to do his job properly. Any way you look at it, Rocky Long is nearing the end of his career. We need to be ready to pick the right man when the time comes, and that time can't be too far off. AzWm
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Post by csfoster on Aug 3, 2015 11:06:47 GMT -8
I have no dog in this fight, so my stress level tends toward placid. One thing is certain from reading this forum, Long's coaching skills are not being judged based on the bargain-basement tools he's been given. If you are expecting him to drive some golden nails, don't supply him with a K-Mart hammer. Very true. I always find it interesting when people say "we should be dominating" this conference. Based on what? Our superior facilities? Our superior base of donors and donations? Our superior revenue stream? Waves and sunshine doesn't define a dominating program. We're definitely heading in the right direction. We're creating a history of winning, following a decade of ineptness. We're matching other schools with TCoA financial aid (while some are not. We're expanding Fowler to at least help make it semi-competitive to other football facilities. Hopefully the stadium issue with the Chargers gets resolved shortly so we can figure out the best course of action to overcome that hurdle. We're going to continue to be f'd by the TV contract, at least in comparison to many other MWC programs.
But ultimately we need grow the Aztec club, and support the program and so we can provide Rocky (or whoever it may be 2-3 years from now) with more tools to compete. We've given Fisher the tools; now we need to do the same for football.
So true and we can do it!
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Post by AztecBill on Aug 3, 2015 11:37:59 GMT -8
With all that talent, I believe Luginbill deserved to be fired. We cracked the top 25 for two weeks in 1992, but otherwise: 31-25-3 in five years. Only two winning seasons. No conference championships. One bowl appearance (loss). The team gave up at least 30ppg in four of his five years. In Lugie's last year (with Faulk scoring 24 TDs and Darnay Scott scoring 10 TDs), we went 6-6 (4-4 in conference), finished seventh in the WAC, lost four straight to end the season, and the team gave up an average of 32ppg. Lugie's inability to recruit replacements for Marshall and Darnay was his biggest downfall. You would have thought we would have been in the running for the Top 10 RB and Top 10 WR after those years. Who recruited the guy who broke Faulk's rushing record before that was again broken last year? As I remember George Jones played the season after Faulk left meaning he must have been recruited by Lugie. I could be misremembering.
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Post by AccessBowlTime on Aug 3, 2015 12:09:02 GMT -8
MWC schools which have as much football talent as SDSU within a 2-hour drive of their campus: Fresno and SJSU, that's it
MWC schools which have a better stadium to play in than SDSU: as mediocre as ours might be, none that I'm aware of
MWC schools which have a superior weight room to SDSU: none I'm aware of
MWC schools with a better academic reputation than SDSU: CSU and AFA, that's it
MWC with accoutrements (read weather and attractive women) equal to SDSU: none I'm aware of
The other side of the coin is something which beating P5 schools more than just a couple times per decade and winning bowl games even less often than that can easily remedy: fan support. But even in that category, SDSU is behind just Boise and Fresno in the MWC.
I won't go so far as to say SDSU should be dominating the MWC because we've been so far behind Boise for so long we may never catch them unless they falter. However, with all we have going for us, we SHOULD be dominating everybody else in football.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 12:30:17 GMT -8
MWC schools which have as much football talent as SDSU within a 2-hour drive of their campus: Fresno and SJSU, that's it MWC schools which have a better stadium to play in than SDSU: as mediocre as ours might be, none that I'm aware ofMWC schools which have a superior weight room to SDSU: none I'm aware of MWC schools with a better academic reputation than SDSU: CSU and AFA, that's it MWC with accoutrements (read weather and attractive women) equal to SDSU: none I'm aware of The other side of the coin is something which beating P5 schools more than just a couple times per decade and winning bowl games even less often than that can easily remedy: fan support. But even in that category, SDSU is behind just Boise and Fresno in the MWC. I won't go so far as to say SDSU should be dominating the MWC because we've been so far behind Boise for so long we may never catch them unless they falter. However, with all we have going for us, we SHOULD be dominating everybody else in football. Shocking, but this one is almost true...we're closer to 4 or 5th though, not number 1. The list below has us 97 out of 128...that shows you how poorly MW venues are viewed by outsiders. bleacherreport.com/articles/1724721-power-ranking-every-college-football-teams-stadium/page/30
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Post by AccessBowlTime on Aug 3, 2015 13:18:19 GMT -8
MWC schools which have as much football talent as SDSU within a 2-hour drive of their campus: Fresno and SJSU, that's it MWC schools which have a better stadium to play in than SDSU: as mediocre as ours might be, none that I'm aware ofMWC schools which have a superior weight room to SDSU: none I'm aware of MWC schools with a better academic reputation than SDSU: CSU and AFA, that's it MWC with accoutrements (read weather and attractive women) equal to SDSU: none I'm aware of The other side of the coin is something which beating P5 schools more than just a couple times per decade and winning bowl games even less often than that can easily remedy: fan support. But even in that category, SDSU is behind just Boise and Fresno in the MWC. I won't go so far as to say SDSU should be dominating the MWC because we've been so far behind Boise for so long we may never catch them unless they falter. However, with all we have going for us, we SHOULD be dominating everybody else in football. Shocking, but this one is almost true...we're closer to 4 or 5th though, not number 1. The list below has us 97 out of 128...that shows you how poorly MW venues are viewed by outsiders. bleacherreport.com/articles/1724721-power-ranking-every-college-football-teams-stadium/page/30 Fresno: "Looks much larger than 41K." Yeah, I'll give you that but OTOH, it doesn't have theater seats and you can't buy beer. Hawaii: "Ain't never been there, they tell it's . . a dump." USU and AFA: "Beautiful surroundings." No denying that, but both stadiums are inferior to Qualcomm. (Unless you like sitting on concrete.) UNR: The Bleacher Reporter is insane. That Erector Set is a complete joke. Boise: Well, I guess if you like a blue field . . .
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