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Post by myownwords on Jul 30, 2015 21:01:32 GMT -8
MOW, this thread is tailor made for you. Why so late to the party? Work. |
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Post by AzTex on Jul 30, 2015 21:30:33 GMT -8
Isn't the fact that he is HERE, evidence enough? Or do you take the position that he bolted the doors against poachers, whilst he struggled in New Mexico? He couldn't tear himself away from that powerhouse? And do you, for one minute, think that there would NOT have been a leak to the press, if ANY program had shown interest in Rocky during his time here? If in fact he has actually shunned opportunities to "move up", then what does that say about his ambition? That ALONE should disqualify him as our HC. Are you among the posters who thrill to the Drumbeat of Low Expectations? Have you asked him if he had other offers? He went to NM, he loved the school. He wanted them to succeed. He didn't want to leave. It wasn't about "moving up". The fact he remained loyal speaks to who he is, and shouldn't be used against him. Based on MOW's theory Don Coryell should have been disqualified as our head coach. Don and his wife loved San Diego. He passed many opportunities to move up to high lever programs. But he wanted to stay in San Diego. I don't remember anyone questioning his ambition. He only accepted another offer when the student council made it impossible for him to recruit successfully. Tony Gwynn turned down opportunities to move up to larger markets. He loved it here in San Diego. No one ever questioned his ambition. I'm sure Steve Fisher had changes to move elsewhere to a bigger name program. Lack of ambition? I don't think so. I doubt that any of Rocky's players would question his ambition and passion. |
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Post by sdcoug on Jul 30, 2015 22:53:07 GMT -8
Have you asked him if he had other offers? He went to NM, he loved the school. He wanted them to succeed. He didn't want to leave. It wasn't about "moving up". The fact he remained loyal speaks to who he is, and shouldn't be used against him. Based on MOW's theory Don Coryell should have been disqualified as our head coach. Don and his wife loved San Diego. He passed many opportunities to move up to high lever programs. But he wanted to stay in San Diego. I don't remember anyone questioning his ambition. He only accepted another offer when the student council made it impossible for him to recruit successfully. Tony Gwynn turned down opportunities to move up to larger markets. He loved it here in San Diego. No one ever questioned his ambition. I'm sure Steve Fisher had changes to move elsewhere to a bigger name program. Lack of ambition? I don't think so. I doubt that any of Rocky's players would question his ambition and passion. Maybe MOW lacks loyalty and thus bashes those who are loyal. |
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Post by sdcoug on Jul 30, 2015 22:54:58 GMT -8
Have you asked him if he had other offers? He went to NM, he loved the school. He wanted them to succeed. He didn't want to leave. It wasn't about "moving up". The fact he remained loyal speaks to who he is, and shouldn't be used against him. That's a nice love story. But when it comes to the football program, I would prefer a warrior, not a wife. A man that's "content" is a man not taking anyone, anywhere. In my opinion. Staying somewhere you like doesn't mean your lack ambition, especially when you're successful. |
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Post by aztech on Jul 30, 2015 23:01:28 GMT -8
I am a donor. Who the hell do you think you are calling out people like that? Thanks for donating your time and/or money to the program. As to who do I think I am? I'm just another fan, like all the rest. I just have the feeling we are better served focusing on the things we can change/effect right now, then something that wouldn't change until next off season. You may have noticed how important the 2015 season will be to our program and others attempting to make the P5 leap....all hands on deck. I'm with you there. |
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Post by myownwords on Jul 31, 2015 4:58:06 GMT -8
That's a nice love story. But when it comes to the football program, I would prefer a warrior, not a wife. A man that's "content" is a man not taking anyone, anywhere. In my opinion. Staying somewhere you like doesn't mean your lack ambition, especially when you're successful. May I suggest, that it's further evidence that Mr. Long had no other options--if he wanted to be HC---which is why he quit. It may also tell us that you and I have very different definitions of "successful". |
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Post by myownwords on Jul 31, 2015 5:54:48 GMT -8
Have you asked him if he had other offers? He went to NM, he loved the school. He wanted them to succeed. He didn't want to leave. It wasn't about "moving up". The fact he remained loyal speaks to who he is, and shouldn't be used against him. Based on MOW's theory Don Coryell should have been disqualified as our head coach. Don and his wife loved San Diego. He passed many opportunities to move up to high lever programs. But he wanted to stay in San Diego. I don't remember anyone questioning his ambition. He only accepted another offer when the student council made it impossible for him to recruit successfully. Tony Gwynn turned down opportunities to move up to larger markets. He loved it here in San Diego. No one ever questioned his ambition. I'm sure Steve Fisher had changes to move elsewhere to a bigger name program. Lack of ambition? I don't think so. I doubt that any of Rocky's players would question his ambition and passion. Well, it's not a theory, it's opinion. Whether Coryell's wife, aunt, grandparents, or pets "loved" San Diego, is quite meaningless. Everyone loves San Diego. I have no knowledge of him "passing up" opportunities at other colleges. And if, they were real, were they from New Mexico? Or, Kansas State, or Utah? Doesn't matter, since we have very public, very "national" news of his "ambition" and leap over all other colleges---straight to the NFL. Now THAT is ambition and VERY NOT Rocky-esque, verdad? THAT is what ambition and passion look like---just ask any of the players. And if you're a coach of any other program except the top 10 or 15, "staying" because you "love it" is NOT believable, and THAT HC should retire and not seek another HC job---which of course, is exactly what Rocky told us about himself, before Hoke gave him another chance. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2015 7:50:09 GMT -8
Based on MOW's theory Don Coryell should have been disqualified as our head coach. Don and his wife loved San Diego. He passed many opportunities to move up to high lever programs. But he wanted to stay in San Diego. I don't remember anyone questioning his ambition. He only accepted another offer when the student council made it impossible for him to recruit successfully. Tony Gwynn turned down opportunities to move up to larger markets. He loved it here in San Diego. No one ever questioned his ambition. I'm sure Steve Fisher had changes to move elsewhere to a bigger name program. Lack of ambition? I don't think so. I doubt that any of Rocky's players would question his ambition and passion. Well, it's not a theory, it's opinion. Whether Coryell's wife, aunt, grandparents, or pets "loved" San Diego, is quite meaningless. Everyone loves San Diego. I have no knowledge of him "passing up" opportunities at other colleges. And if, they were real, were they from New Mexico? Or, Kansas State, or Utah? Doesn't matter, since we have very public, very "national" news of his "ambition" and leap over all other colleges---straight to the NFL. Now THAT is ambition and VERY NOT Rocky-esque, verdad? THAT is what ambition and passion look like---just ask any of the players. And if you're a coach of any other program except the top 10 or 15, "staying" because you "love it" is NOT believable, and THAT HC should retire and not seek another HC job---which of course, is exactly what Rocky told us about himself, before Hoke gave him another chance. So it's not ambitious to stay at a program and attempt to do something at said program that has never been done there before? Real question, are you ok MOW? |
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Post by myownwords on Jul 31, 2015 8:00:09 GMT -8
Well, it's not a theory, it's opinion. Whether Coryell's wife, aunt, grandparents, or pets "loved" San Diego, is quite meaningless. Everyone loves San Diego. I have no knowledge of him "passing up" opportunities at other colleges. And if, they were real, were they from New Mexico? Or, Kansas State, or Utah? Doesn't matter, since we have very public, very "national" news of his "ambition" and leap over all other colleges---straight to the NFL. Now THAT is ambition and VERY NOT Rocky-esque, verdad? THAT is what ambition and passion look like---just ask any of the players. And if you're a coach of any other program except the top 10 or 15, "staying" because you "love it" is NOT believable, and THAT HC should retire and not seek another HC job---which of course, is exactly what Rocky told us about himself, before Hoke gave him another chance. So it's not ambitious to stay at a program and attempt to do something at said program that has never been done there before? Real question, are you ok MOW? That is not what I said. That is however, what you chose to infer. When you're in a lower-rung program (SDSU) and you do NOT want to jump to the highest levels, then yes, that is a person you do not want--- especially, when said person has never been to the highest levels. |
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Post by myownwords on Jul 31, 2015 8:10:44 GMT -8
Well, it's not a theory, it's opinion. Whether Coryell's wife, aunt, grandparents, or pets "loved" San Diego, is quite meaningless. Everyone loves San Diego. I have no knowledge of him "passing up" opportunities at other colleges. And if, they were real, were they from New Mexico? Or, Kansas State, or Utah? Doesn't matter, since we have very public, very "national" news of his "ambition" and leap over all other colleges---straight to the NFL. Now THAT is ambition and VERY NOT Rocky-esque, verdad? THAT is what ambition and passion look like---just ask any of the players. And if you're a coach of any other program except the top 10 or 15, "staying" because you "love it" is NOT believable, and THAT HC should retire and not seek another HC job---which of course, is exactly what Rocky told us about himself, before Hoke gave him another chance. So it's not ambitious to stay at a program and attempt to do something at said program that has never been done there before? Real question, are you ok MOW? In my view, Rocky's ONLY options have been to do what he's done--hang out as long as he can. And again, my opinion, but the evidence is overwhelming, that no higher tiered program has been interested in him. |
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Post by sdcoug on Jul 31, 2015 8:49:01 GMT -8
So it's not ambitious to stay at a program and attempt to do something at said program that has never been done there before? Real question, are you ok MOW? In my view, Rocky's ONLY options have been to do what he's done--hang out as long as he can. And again, my opinion, but the evidence is overwhelming, that no higher tiered program has been interested in him. That's what someone would say who has a vendetta against someone, rather than actually taking a minute and asking him. There is no "evidence" and definitely not "overwhelming". It's just you guessing, as usual. |
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Post by AccessBowlTime on Jul 31, 2015 8:51:11 GMT -8
At least in one sense, Rocky isn't Ron McBride. McBride went 3-3 in bowl games.
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Post by myownwords on Jul 31, 2015 9:26:23 GMT -8
In my view, Rocky's ONLY options have been to do what he's done--hang out as long as he can. And again, my opinion, but the evidence is overwhelming, that no higher tiered program has been interested in him. That's what someone would say who has a vendetta against someone, rather than actually taking a minute and asking him. There is no "evidence" and definitely not "overwhelming". It's just you guessing, as usual. You're trying too hard to be obfuscatory. If you actually read several of my posts above completely, it wouldn't be possible for you to make this assertion. |
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Post by AzTex on Aug 1, 2015 13:28:10 GMT -8
Based on MOW's theory Don Coryell should have been disqualified as our head coach. Don and his wife loved San Diego. He passed many opportunities to move up to high lever programs. But he wanted to stay in San Diego. I don't remember anyone questioning his ambition. He only accepted another offer when the student council made it impossible for him to recruit successfully. Tony Gwynn turned down opportunities to move up to larger markets. He loved it here in San Diego. No one ever questioned his ambition. I'm sure Steve Fisher had changes to move elsewhere to a bigger name program. Lack of ambition? I don't think so. I doubt that any of Rocky's players would question his ambition and passion. Well, it's not a theory, it's opinion. Whether Coryell's wife, aunt, grandparents, or pets "loved" San Diego, is quite meaningless. Everyone loves San Diego. I have no knowledge of him "passing up" opportunities at other colleges. And if, they were real, were they from New Mexico? Or, Kansas State, or Utah? Doesn't matter, since we have very public, very "national" news of his "ambition" and leap over all other colleges---straight to the NFL. Now THAT is ambition and VERY NOT Rocky-esque, verdad? THAT is what ambition and passion look like---just ask any of the players. And if you're a coach of any other program except the top 10 or 15, "staying" because you "love it" is NOT believable, and THAT HC should retire and not seek another HC job---which of course, is exactly what Rocky told us about himself, before Hoke gave him another chance. There are many things that you "have no knowledge of" that are true none the less. This is just another one. I don't know how old you are or how long you've been following Aztec football. But, apparently you weren't around at the time. There were articles from time to time discussing other programs interest in Coryell. More importantly, Don told me about some of them. I was very close to the football program during the Coryell/Giibert years. From my discussions I believe he would have finished he career at SDSU if the student council hadn't killed his ability to recruit by eliminating pre-registration for athletes. He didn't want everything he spent years building destroyed by a small group of kids who were only here for a few years. He never would have gone to the NFL otherwise. So, did he suddenly become ambitious at that point? Making all coaches not in the top 10 or 15 retire permanently from coaching if they are staying where they are because they love it would create an enormous number of coaching vacancies all around the country. I suppose you believe that Steve Fisher should also retire and not seek another head coaching job. Sounds to me like sdcoug was right |
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Post by aztecgold on Aug 1, 2015 14:47:51 GMT -8
With all that talent, I believe Luginbill deserved to be fired. We cracked the top 25 for two weeks in 1992, but otherwise: 31-25-3 in five years. Only two winning seasons. No conference championships. One bowl appearance (loss). The team gave up at least 30ppg in four of his five years. In Lugie's last year (with Faulk scoring 24 TDs and Darnay Scott scoring 10 TDs), we went 6-6 (4-4 in conference), finished seventh in the WAC, lost four straight to end the season, and the team gave up an average of 32ppg. Lugie's fate was based on hanging on to his inept DC, Barry Lamb. If we had a defense then, there's no telling how far Lugie could have taken us. Well, the problem was Luginbill was suppose to be a defensive coach himself. I'm afraid "losing" the infamous 52-52 tie to BYU was reason enough to fire him by itself. I still have nightmares over that game. |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Aug 1, 2015 16:37:24 GMT -8
We need to take a comprehensive view of Aztec football.
First, where do we stand with respect to the other FBS schools? There are about 40 or more FBS schools that SDSU should be able to beat routinely. That would include all 11 from the Sunbelt Conference, 12 from Conference-USA (all but Marshall), 12 from the MAC (all but N. Illinois) at least half a dozen from the AAC, plus Army.
Add to that a number of P5 schools that drag ass in their respective conferences. That would include Indiana, Iowa State, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Washington State, and maybe a couple of others. And, finally, take your pick of several MWC schools that we should be able to beat well over half the time. In other words, unless SDSU is Chuck Long bad, the Aztecs should be able to beat at least about 50 of the 128 FBS schools almost always. Needless to say, SDSU should NEVER lose to an Eastern Illinois or a Cal Poly.
A pretty good Aztec team should also beat quite a few of the teams not listed above. Probably not USC or Ohio State, but quite possibly an Oregon State or a Texas Tech. Bottom line: SDSU should be winning at least 7 games a year AS AN ABSOLUTE MINIMUM, more often 8 or 9. But 8 or 9 wins a year, while decent, won't put 40,000 to 50,000 fans in the seats week after week.
So what will it take to get to the 11 or 12 wins a year level? Many factors figure into the equation, but I think that coaching is the most important. We have been bouncing around Rocky Long's name for months. There should be no doubt that Rocky is a solid coach, especially on defense. It's a waste of time to argue the merits of his days at New Mexico. What is relevant is how the team does this year. I can imagine an 9 or 10 win season in '15, but given our frequent disappointments, I can also imagine a 6 or 7 win season. My position is this; unless we can start wining 10 or more games a year, with MWC championships and bowl victories as well, the program will continue to drift.
The problem is, if this is another disappointing year, will the AD have the guts to say, "Enough is enough"? If another mediocre year is tolerated, why should we suppose that the program will ever turn the corner? For me, 8-5, including a bowl loss, would have to be considered a mediocre year. We have had too many of those.
AzWm
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Post by sdsustoner on Aug 1, 2015 16:44:57 GMT -8
With all that talent, I believe Luginbill deserved to be fired. We cracked the top 25 for two weeks in 1992, but otherwise: 31-25-3 in five years. Only two winning seasons. No conference championships. One bowl appearance (loss). The team gave up at least 30ppg in four of his five years. In Lugie's last year (with Faulk scoring 24 TDs and Darnay Scott scoring 10 TDs), we went 6-6 (4-4 in conference), finished seventh in the WAC, lost four straight to end the season, and the team gave up an average of 32ppg. Lugie's inability to recruit replacements for Marshall and Darnay was his biggest downfall. You would have thought we would have been in the running for the Top 10 RB and Top 10 WR after those years. He got canned in Dec 1993. In 1994, we has Az and Blackwell playing WR and Pittman at RB...he was not Faulk, but he had more than 1,400 yards. So it isn't like the rush game suffered. Justin Watson, a future Ram RB was on the roster. |
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Post by alamobruin on Aug 2, 2015 6:08:00 GMT -8
Based on MOW's theory Don Coryell should have been disqualified as our head coach. Don and his wife loved San Diego. He passed many opportunities to move up to high lever programs. But he wanted to stay in San Diego. I don't remember anyone questioning his ambition. He only accepted another offer when the student council made it impossible for him to recruit successfully. Tony Gwynn turned down opportunities to move up to larger markets. He loved it here in San Diego. No one ever questioned his ambition. I'm sure Steve Fisher had changes to move elsewhere to a bigger name program. Lack of ambition? I don't think so. I doubt that any of Rocky's players would question his ambition and passion. Well, it's not a theory, it's opinion. Whether Coryell's wife, aunt, grandparents, or pets "loved" San Diego, is quite meaningless. Everyone loves San Diego. I have no knowledge of him "passing up" opportunities at other colleges. And if, they were real, were they from New Mexico? Or, Kansas State, or Utah? Doesn't matter, since we have very public, very "national" news of his "ambition" and leap over all other colleges---straight to the NFL. Now THAT is ambition and VERY NOT Rocky-esque, verdad? THAT is what ambition and passion look like---just ask any of the players. And if you're a coach of any other program except the top 10 or 15, "staying" because you "love it" is NOT believable, and THAT HC should retire and not seek another HC job---which of course, is exactly what Rocky told us about himself, before Hoke gave him another chance. This is akin to saying if your wife is not a supermodel, you had better be constantly trading up, love and loyalty are not proper excuses for maintaining your marriage.
You're trying to suggest that ambition and drive are only relevant for coaches at the Top 10-15 programs? It would then follow that every other head coaching position is nothing more than a stepping stone to the big time. Why would you even worry about getting a coach with such ambition? If he is of the type you describe, he's not going to be your coach for very long if he achieves any modicum of success.
And what of those coaches who took smaller, less powerful programs and built them into NC contenders? Do they lack such ambition if they choose to stay with those institutions, and should they be relieved of their duties because they lack the ambition to "elevate" their careers by moving to more high-profile positions?
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Post by ron on Aug 2, 2015 13:54:51 GMT -8
Lugie's fate was based on hanging on to his inept DC, Barry Lamb. If we had a defense then, there's no telling how far Lugie could have taken us. Well, the problem was Luginbill was suppose to be a defensive coach himself. I'm afraid "losing" the infamous 52-52 tie to BYU was reason enough to fire him by itself. I still have nightmares over that game. Thinking of that game still makes me nauseous. Why did you have to bring it up?  |
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Post by myownwords on Aug 2, 2015 15:59:29 GMT -8
Well, it's not a theory, it's opinion. Whether Coryell's wife, aunt, grandparents, or pets "loved" San Diego, is quite meaningless. Everyone loves San Diego. I have no knowledge of him "passing up" opportunities at other colleges. And if, they were real, were they from New Mexico? Or, Kansas State, or Utah? Doesn't matter, since we have very public, very "national" news of his "ambition" and leap over all other colleges---straight to the NFL. Now THAT is ambition and VERY NOT Rocky-esque, verdad? THAT is what ambition and passion look like---just ask any of the players. And if you're a coach of any other program except the top 10 or 15, "staying" because you "love it" is NOT believable, and THAT HC should retire and not seek another HC job---which of course, is exactly what Rocky told us about himself, before Hoke gave him another chance. This is akin to saying if your wife is not a supermodel, you had better be constantly trading up, love and loyalty are not proper excuses for maintaining your marriage.
You're trying to suggest that ambition and drive are only relevant for coaches at the Top 10-15 programs? It would then follow that every other head coaching position is nothing more than a stepping stone to the big time. Why would you even worry about getting a coach with such ambition? If he is of the type you describe, he's not going to be your coach for very long if he achieves any modicum of success.
And what of those coaches who took smaller, less powerful programs and built them into NC contenders? Do they lack such ambition if they choose to stay with those institutions, and should they be relieved of their duties because they lack the ambition to "elevate" their careers by moving to more high-profile positions?
It is your choice to glean logic, or draw upon your own denial to infer whatever you like. Don't care. We have an HC that no one has ever hired away from either New Mexico (which some here think was his "Miracle") by many, many programs who could use a "miracle". He has continued his straight-line program to mediocrity here and those who share his low expectations will continue to defend him. Welcome to his club. |
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