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Post by rebar619 on May 20, 2015 19:01:31 GMT -8
Can we please get away from this baseless premise? There is no evidence to suggest this will happen. As a matter of fact the only evidence shows that the NFL leaving town will not impact SDSU FB much at all. When LA lost the Rams and Raiders, UCLA and USC did not see bumps in attendance until they changed their marketing and performance on the field. This is two storied schools that play in a relevant conference. If they did not see much of a change why the hell would SDSU see any bump at all? We don't play in a relevant conference. Heck, we dont win our conference! WE LOSE TO NAVY ON OUR HOME FIELD!!!!!! Put a good product on the field then alumni and the community will come. The presence of the Chargers has nothing to do with SDSU success. To suggest otherwise is a fallacy. I bust you on this every time you make this claim but the facts don't back it up. Here is the effect on attendance on SC & UCLA for more than just the immediate season following the Rams & Raiders departure. The Rams were in LA from 1946-1994 and the Raiders were in LA from 1982-94 so here is the home attendance for UCLA/USC during those 13 seasons where the two local college teams competed with 2 NFL franchises and then the equivalent number of seasons following their departure as the only game in town. 1982-1994 UCLA Avg Attendance 54,412 1995-2007 UCLA Avg Attendance 62,058 14% increase 1982-1994 USC Avg Attendance 61,769 1995-2007 USC Avg Attendance 65,305 5.7% increase Also, the 20 years since the departure of the NFL has been the most successful stretch of attendance for both programs in their histories. Page 119 of the UCLA media guide (link below) shows UCLA attendance history. www.uclabruins.com/fls/30500/pdf/14_FB_MediaGuide.pdf?&&SPSID=749897&SPID=126928&DB_OEM_ID=30500Page 186 of the USC Media Guide (link below) shows UCLA attendance history. grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/usc/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/2014-15/misc_non_event/2014-fb-media-guide.pdf As usual you ignore the analysis of USC and UCLA that says otherwise. Of course I am sure you know better. SMH
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Post by SDSU-Alum2003 on May 20, 2015 19:18:51 GMT -8
So, you are saying San Diego State University, the only D1 college football program in San Diego, does not represent our city? Even if I didn't graduate from SDSU I would still follow the program because I am a fan of college football not NFL football. For people without a direct connection to the school it doesn't represent the city the way a pro team does. And if there is no pro team in the city? What then? Boise State is a great example of a G5 team that represents its city even if you didn't attend BSU and doesn't have a pro team. Fresno State and East Carolina are other G5 examples. Another is BYU as an independent. There are plenty of P5 examples such as USC, UCLA, Oregon, Oregon State, Utah, Nebraska, Penn State and most of the SEC. Granted the P5 have some inherent advantages. SDSU has the potential to surpass what Boise State has accomplished. If they do I can guarantee you will see an enormous amount of support from those who have no connection to the school. Particularly if there was no pro team in the city. I can think of no better example than SDSU's very own men's basketball program. Granted it is a different sport but the same basic principles apply. My doctor graduated from Stanford but is a huge SDSU basketball fan and has season tickets. I know many more who fit this description.
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Post by aztecfan1 on May 20, 2015 19:30:54 GMT -8
Well, I'm sure your doctor is a smart guy. But, the cities you mention are minor league cities. SD has been a major league city. There will be disgruntled, even overly angry fans when the pro football team departs. Will the Aztec automatically prosper from that? Not initially. However, if the Plan B of building a 30-40000 seat stadium on the Qualcomm site eventually appears in 5+ years, then college football in SD may become something akin to what it is in places like Tucson, SLC, Austin, Little Rock. Will take some time. Having a new building is key. People will not go the now almost 50 year old Q much longer an be impressed. So much about the future of Aztec football in our town has yet to be revealed.
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Post by SDSU-Alum2003 on May 20, 2015 19:33:54 GMT -8
Don't underestimate the change in sports fan culture over the past 15-20 years since the NFL has left LA: fantasy football. It has already reached amazing numbers and keeps growing. I'm leaning towards not following the NFL at all if the Chargers leave but there's a part of me that might continue following the NFL through fantasy football. I would have to take a few years hiatus first because I would probably be too disappointed and/or hateful of the NFL before I could start to get over it. But the NFL is undisputed king of sports in America. If the Chargers leave, I think most fans here would still follow the NFL and a lot of them would do so because of fantasy football, football pools, betting on games, etc. To those that think that massive amounts of people with no affiliation to SDSU would suddenly become fans, you need to take your homer goggles off. I don't think "massive" amounts of people will suddenly become fans but SDSU will definitely see a significant bump. Particularly if we can go on a run similar to what Boise State has accomplished. Actually, if SDSU had already done what Boise State has accomplished we would probably already be in a P5 conference.
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Post by SDSU-Alum2003 on May 20, 2015 19:37:07 GMT -8
Well, I'm sure your doctor is a smart guy. But, the cities you mention are minor league cities. SD has been a major league city. There will be disgruntled, even overly angry fans when the pro football team departs. Will the Aztec automatically prosper from that? Not initially. However, if the Plan B of building a 30-40000 seat stadium on the Qualcomm site eventually appears in 5+ years, then college football in SD may become something akin to what it is in places like Tucson, SLC, Austin, Little Rock. Will take some time. Having a new building is key. People will not go the now almost 50 year old Q much longer an be impressed. So much about the future of Aztec football in our town has yet to be revealed. Agree 100% If you think about it most of these college football programs are in smaller markets. Even in small markets the teams can be embraced by the entire city or even state; Boise State and BYU are national; others are Oregon, Nebraska, Penn State and many others.
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Post by retiredaztec on May 20, 2015 20:07:38 GMT -8
Can we please get away from this baseless premise? There is no evidence to suggest this will happen. As a matter of fact the only evidence shows that the NFL leaving town will not impact SDSU FB much at all. When LA lost the Rams and Raiders, UCLA and USC did not see bumps in attendance until they changed their marketing and performance on the field. This is two storied schools that play in a relevant conference. If they did not see much of a change why the hell would SDSU see any bump at all? We don't play in a relevant conference. Heck, we dont win our conference! WE LOSE TO NAVY ON OUR HOME FIELD!!!!!! Put a good product on the field then alumni and the community will come. The presence of the Chargers has nothing to do with SDSU success. To suggest otherwise is a fallacy. I bust you on this every time you make this claim but the facts don't back it up. Here is the effect on attendance on SC & UCLA for more than just the immediate season following the Rams & Raiders departure. The Rams were in LA from 1946-1994 and the Raiders were in LA from 1982-94 so here is the home attendance for UCLA/USC during those 13 seasons where the two local college teams competed with 2 NFL franchises and then the equivalent number of seasons following their departure as the only game in town. 1982-1994 UCLA Avg Attendance 54,412 1995-2007 UCLA Avg Attendance 62,058 14% increase 1982-1994 USC Avg Attendance 61,769 1995-2007 USC Avg Attendance 65,305 5.7% increase Also, the 20 years since the departure of the NFL has been the most successful stretch of attendance for both programs in their histories. Page 119 of the UCLA media guide (link below) shows UCLA attendance history. www.uclabruins.com/fls/30500/pdf/14_FB_MediaGuide.pdf?&&SPSID=749897&SPID=126928&DB_OEM_ID=30500Page 186 of the USC Media Guide (link below) shows UCLA attendance history. grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/usc/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/2014-15/misc_non_event/2014-fb-media-guide.pdf So now we're going to put USC and UCLA football in the same light? Please. I was doing my graduate work at UCLA when the football program pulled up stakes and moved to the burbs. The level of support didn't skip a beat because the HC was a Bruin icon that left a legacy. USC pretty much treaded water after the Mckay/Robinson years until that guy that went to Seattle brought the program to a level of success not seen since the 70's and then some. During this time NFL football was pretty much on different planet in LA. To even bring up UCLA and USC in a conversation regarding SDSU football is an insult to my intelligence. The continued success of both programs in LA had NOTHING to do with the departure of NFL teams. The teams left because the citizens DIDN'T CARE if they stayed or they left. Now the absolutely absurd notion that the city of San Diego will embrace the Aztecs if the Chargers leave? If the Aztecs had played to the level of USC or UCLA presumably they would have already been embraced by the community, regardless of the Chargers. Just like LA. But that never happened and never will. I'll say it again, Chargers leave, Aztec football is on the clock. Now excuse me while I read up on the San Francisco Warriors, San Diego Rockets NBA western finals.
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Post by Spud on May 20, 2015 20:37:58 GMT -8
I would tend to agree with you and really anything can still happen at this point. I will say this however, media folks tend to know a lot more than they will ever print, local or otherwise. Even if they have never been told we are leaving, or we are staying, they have enough access to know the Chargers likely intent. This is why the general somber tone of the media should have locals worried. Let me repeat I actually want the Chargers to stay but firmly believe they will look to leave unless we provide them Downtown, or MV becomes a development that rivals 99% of NFL stadiums. Because of this I am concerned that CSAG and the city are only going through the motions because they are either unwilling or unable to provide the Chargers with what they truly want. You're wrong about the media. They ALL want to be the first to announce a scoop/story. They'll do anything to be the first. The day we (AWF) snuck the AW into the stadium and unveiled him vs. ASU (were you there), I had media even follow me into the stadium restrooms hoping that I would let them know exactly where the AW would first appear. It was really funny. I told them ALL the same story because I realized that we needed them in the future and if I wasn't fair to all, we wouldn't get that coverage later on when we needed it. Hey, how come you don't go by AztecBruce anymore?
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Post by Spud on May 20, 2015 20:49:27 GMT -8
I bust you on this every time you make this claim but the facts don't back it up. Here is the effect on attendance on SC & UCLA for more than just the immediate season following the Rams & Raiders departure. The Rams were in LA from 1946-1994 and the Raiders were in LA from 1982-94 so here is the home attendance for UCLA/USC during those 13 seasons where the two local college teams competed with 2 NFL franchises and then the equivalent number of seasons following their departure as the only game in town. 1982-1994 UCLA Avg Attendance 54,412 1995-2007 UCLA Avg Attendance 62,058 14% increase 1982-1994 USC Avg Attendance 61,769 1995-2007 USC Avg Attendance 65,305 5.7% increase Also, the 20 years since the departure of the NFL has been the most successful stretch of attendance for both programs in their histories. Page 119 of the UCLA media guide (link below) shows UCLA attendance history. www.uclabruins.com/fls/30500/pdf/14_FB_MediaGuide.pdf?&&SPSID=749897&SPID=126928&DB_OEM_ID=30500Page 186 of the USC Media Guide (link below) shows UCLA attendance history. grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/usc/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/2014-15/misc_non_event/2014-fb-media-guide.pdf So now we're going to put USC and UCLA football in the same light? Please. I was doing my graduate work at UCLA when the football program pulled up stakes and moved to the burbs. The level of support didn't skip a beat because the HC was a Bruin icon that left a legacy. USC pretty much treaded water after the Mckay/Robinson years until that guy that went to Seattle brought the program to a level of success not seen since the 70's and then some. During this time NFL football was pretty much on different planet in LA. To even bring up UCLA and USC in a conversation regarding SDSU football is an insult to my intelligence. The continued success of both programs in LA had NOTHING to do with the departure of NFL teams. The teams left because the citizens DIDN'T CARE if they stayed or they left. Now the absolutely absurd notion that the city of San Diego will embrace the Aztecs if the Chargers leave? If the Aztecs had played to the level of USC or UCLA presumably they would have already been embraced by the community, regardless of the Chargers. Just like LA. But that never happened and never will. I'll say it again, Chargers leave, Aztec football is on the clock. Now excuse me while I read up on the San Francisco Warriors, San Diego Rockets NBA western finals. Aztec football is already on the clock...with or without the Chargers. No P5 entrance in the next few years, and that'll be all she wrote.
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Post by sdsudevil on May 20, 2015 21:32:07 GMT -8
A new NFL stadium to play in, or attempt to build our own that meets our exact needs?
Since we as fans have no say in this matter, why argue, when we can just be happy with the fact that we at least have a realistic shot at not playing in Qualcomm, where the first row of the student section is 20 feet in the air, and you need binos by the time you hit loge sections?
Seems like both are wins to me, so we have to roll with the punches.
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Post by aztecfan1 on May 21, 2015 1:21:30 GMT -8
So now we're going to put USC and UCLA football in the same light? Please. I was doing my graduate work at UCLA when the football program pulled up stakes and moved to the burbs. The level of support didn't skip a beat because the HC was a Bruin icon that left a legacy. USC pretty much treaded water after the Mckay/Robinson years until that guy that went to Seattle brought the program to a level of success not seen since the 70's and then some. During this time NFL football was pretty much on different planet in LA. To even bring up UCLA and USC in a conversation regarding SDSU football is an insult to my intelligence. The continued success of both programs in LA had NOTHING to do with the departure of NFL teams. The teams left because the citizens DIDN'T CARE if they stayed or they left. Now the absolutely absurd notion that the city of San Diego will embrace the Aztecs if the Chargers leave? If the Aztecs had played to the level of USC or UCLA presumably they would have already been embraced by the community, regardless of the Chargers. Just like LA. But that never happened and never will. I'll say it again, Chargers leave, Aztec football is on the clock. Now excuse me while I read up on the San Francisco Warriors, San Diego Rockets NBA western finals. Aztec football is already on the clock...with or without the Chargers. No P5 entrance in the next few years, and that'll be all she wrote. Disagree. IF there is a new stadium AND upgrade on results, we can move up from current 25k to 35k or even 40k WITH pro football departure.
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Post by rebar619 on May 21, 2015 5:20:01 GMT -8
I almost forgot most of the hardcore SDSU football fans(i.e. Don't need to be playing a P5 or in the hunt for a BCS game to get excited for their team) abandoned this site. No offense to the hardcore fans still here BTW. I think you are conflating the difference between being a "hardcore" fan and looking at the world as it is. The two are not mutually exclusive.
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Post by hoobs on May 21, 2015 6:39:14 GMT -8
Aztec football is already on the clock...with or without the Chargers. No P5 entrance in the next few years, and that'll be all she wrote. Disagree. IF there is a new stadium AND upgrade on results, we can move up from current 25k to 35k or even 40k WITH pro football departure. With a new college football stadium and an upgrade on results... we'll see 40k butts in seats with or without NFL football in town.
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Post by docmm on May 21, 2015 6:48:25 GMT -8
When I started this thread my main point was that I was looking forward to the increased awareness of SDSU major sports that would have to take place if the Chargers left. I have no idea if there will be 5%, 20% or 0% increase in SDSU football attendance. I don't really care. The football team will draw more if it wins more or defeats better programs. Like a lot of people on this board I love to discuss, surmise and pontificate about Men's BB. It's my favorite sports experience by far. So I also love to hear others discuss it. That's what will change. Sports talk shows and newspapers HAVE to fill time and space so there will be more discussion about Aztec basketball much earlier in their season. THAT'S what I meant to suggest. I remember the Monday morning after we beat Kansas and I couldn't wait to hear someone say something about that historic defeat on the radio. That was also the day the Chargers beat the Bengals in at the Wild Card game so the SDSU game didn't even come up on either sports talk shows for over an hour and a half. I know it was the playoffs but still. That's what will change.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2015 6:50:29 GMT -8
Disagree. IF there is a new stadium AND upgrade on results, we can move up from current 25k to 35k or even 40k WITH pro football departure. With a new college football stadium and an upgrade on results... we'll see 40k butts in seats with or without NFL football in town. The unfortunate issue here is, given the conference SDSU plays in, there is little margin for error in what that upgrade on results would have to be. And I do not mean that SDSU is somehow superior to the others in the MWC - just the obvious issue that it is not viewed as a 'major' conference that people are interested in watching. No doubt the folks in Wyoming don't get overly excited about SDSU coming to their stadium to play football either. So as I said, this leaves SDSU with the task of having to go 12-0, 11-1, or 10-2 every year with their only losses to 'acceptable' teams on their schedule... in my view, understanding sports as they really are, this is easier said than done. And, yes, I recognize it can be done it's just not as simple as some suggest.
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Post by SDSU-Alum2003 on May 21, 2015 7:30:16 GMT -8
Disagree. IF there is a new stadium AND upgrade on results, we can move up from current 25k to 35k or even 40k WITH pro football departure. With a new college football stadium and an upgrade on results... we'll see 40k butts in seats with or without NFL football in town. Unfortunately, IMO, until the Chargers leave town SDSU will not make any attempt to build their own stadium.
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Post by SDSU-Alum2003 on May 21, 2015 7:35:02 GMT -8
With a new college football stadium and an upgrade on results... we'll see 40k butts in seats with or without NFL football in town. The unfortunate issue here is, given the conference SDSU plays in, there is little margin for error in what that upgrade on results would have to be. And I do not mean that SDSU is somehow superior to the others in the MWC - just the obvious issue that it is not viewed as a 'major' conference that people are interested in watching. No doubt the folks in Wyoming don't get overly excited about SDSU coming to their stadium to play football either. So as I said, this leaves SDSU with the task of having to go 12-0, 11-1, or 10-2 every year with their only losses to 'acceptable' teams on their schedule... in my view, understanding sports as they really are, this is easier said than done. And, yes, I recognize it can be done it's just not as simple as some suggest. Yup. It is a crappy situation to be in but that's just how it is. If Boise State can do it; SDSU can do it. Having our own stadium would help.
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Post by ab on May 21, 2015 7:48:37 GMT -8
That would contradict prior comments from the NFL that they only wanted 2 SoCal teams. I would have to guess the Spanos' would raise hell about that one...especially if they don't end up in downtown SD. I could see the Rams staying put, Kroenke purchasing the raiders and then moving them to LA though. What is to stop Kroenke from purchasing the Chargers and moving them to LA instead? Spanos, Spanos, Spanos, & Spanos.
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Post by ab on May 21, 2015 7:59:16 GMT -8
I understand that you and many others prefer that option. But playing in a new state of the art stadium suitable for Super Bowls isn't a bad alternative. The reviews are that the stadium will be nice enough, but short of Superbowl worthy ... Says who? Goodell is the only person that matters and I don't think he's spoken on the subject.
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Post by ab on May 21, 2015 8:02:47 GMT -8
I don't have time to play your senseless games. Recruiting involves a lot more than a stadium and if Pitt's staff isn't doing a good job it's their fault and not the stadium. If you subscribe to rivals or scout, you would have read many recruits say how cool they thought it would be to play at the same stadium where the Chargers play. I've not read one who says they didn't want to play in a NFL stadium. They just don't want to play in an empty stadium, hence much of our football recruiting doesn't take place during home games unless it's the Sky Show. All these things you want me to provide for you have nothing to do with my past comments. Go do your own homework. You've got no experience w/ the media as I have, hence your failed logic on that subject. All this other crap you keep pulling out of your shorts means nothing. Any dumbass knows that in State's current football situation a 45k seat stadium would be better. Maybe they ought to schedule some 2-1 and get some schools in here that might sell tickets. Their recent contract w/ Stanford might help attendance. Bring in Ohio St as we should have, would have definitely sold tickets. So since you're saying no G5 team has averaged 50k means that we can't. Why not be the first?(if that's the case). A 45k seat stadium will NOT keep the Holiday Bowl as a major bowl. But then again, I'm looking at what's best for San Diego and NOT just SDSU. It doesn't appear that you are. I have a rivals account and can barely ever recall the Q being mentioned by recruits as a deciding factor in their decision making process. The fact that you mention tOSU coming to SDSU on the road shows how little you know about scheduling. Take a look at tOSU, Michigan, and other blue bloods of football. Check how many OOC road games they even play most years...then check how many of those are against G5 teams. SDSU's recruiting has improved over the last 5 years because we started winning...not because of the Q...but in spite of it. As a formed SDSU athlete who lived next door to Kirk and others on the Blackshirt Dz(oh the parties we had) back in the day they never really made a big deal about playing in the Q. Thats just some garbage for people in denial about the state the Q is in to chew on and believe. You're funny, you say I have nothing to back it up, I provide evidence in the form of Pitt's awful recruiting, and then you get all flustered. The bowls will stay when the Chargers get the DT stadium they really want and not the MV they are pretending they are ok with for the moment. Hey Genius....Ohio State was suppose to play at the Q but Rick Bay sold it back to them, hence 3 straight trips to Columbus. your "evidence" as you call it is without evidence. i.e. You've got NOTHING. What's your motivation in this thread? Do you just want to argue? Go kick your cat or whatever.
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Post by ab on May 21, 2015 8:06:10 GMT -8
San Diego will only back a winner, and a winner is not part of the MWC and never will be. (minus basketball) That would explain the poor Chargers attendance over the years ... but what do I know, I am from San Diego and I support both the Chargers and the Aztecs in good times and bad regardless of conference. One might take note that the economy in San Diego has suffered since 2007 so people's money had to be cut from "luxury" items such as tickets to Chargers games.
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