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Post by SDSU-Alum2003 on Apr 2, 2015 13:15:59 GMT -8
You are partly correct. I'll try to sort out what I find correct and what I find flawed in your post. * San Diego (specifically the city) Really cannot afford to put up several hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayer money simply to make pro football fans and the Spanos family feel good. If the Chargers could build their own stadium on land they buy, that's fine. No doubt the city will end up spending some money on access roads, etc., but that would be much preferable to the deal (or should I say "steal") that the Chargers hope they will get. * In order to succeed in the long term, the Aztecs need to do several things. They need to hire a coach who, in the manner of Don Coryell and Steve Fisher, is a dramatic game changer. That will not be easy to do, since hiring coaches who turn out not to be very good is easier than hiring outstanding ones. They also need, in my view, to divorce themselves from the Chargers. I understand why the school opted to play in San Diego Stadium in 1967, but it's clear now that however much that made sense then, sharing a stadium with an NFL team is less than ideal. The best case would be to build a stadium on campus. Next best, and this is in a sense a variation of the first concept, take over the Mission Valley site for educational purposes but also in order eventually to be able to raze the Q and build a 40,000 stadium more suited to the needs of an FBS program. Here's a point to keep in mind. SDSU's football program took off and captured the imagination of the city at a time when the Chargers were mediocre and not yet part of the NFL. The Chargers represented much less competition then than they now do. If the Chargers move, there will be a lot of local fans who will not be buying season tickets to follow the Los Angeles Chargers. I don't expect too many of them to become Aztec fans overnight, but eventually the absence of a pro team here will give the Aztecs a chance to be the favorite team of generations yet to come, people who will not have grown up with "Go Chargers" blinking on message boards on the back of transit busses. But, of course, the Aztecs are going to have to be winning 9, 10, 11 or more games a year to close that deal. No more losing to mediocre Navy teams because of missing an easy field goal on the game's last play. Aztec football has to get a lot better than it now is in order to be taken seriously here and nation-wide. But that would be easier to do without having to fight for attention against the NFL. IF the Aztecs have to continue sharing a stadium with the Chargers, reaching the goal all Aztec football fans hope for will be possible but a lot harder than if the school did not have to play second fiddle to a pro team. How many perennial Top-25 FBS schools share a stadium with an NFL franchise? The Hurricanes do, but they also do not draw terribly well. Right off hand I cannot think of another really successful FBS school that plays in an NFL stadium. I don't think that's just a coincidence. AzWm You and I agree on what is needed for SDSU FB to succeed with the exception of the involvement the Chargers do/don't have in it. First, SDSU has to have a good facility to play in. I think that we can agree on. It is important for recruits and fans alike. A stadium on the existing campus would be great, but it is not going to happen according to Jim Sterk. The next option is MV. I have no doubt that a stadium can be designed that makes for a great game day experience for the Aztecs and Chargers. I have many thoughts on that I will not bore you with. Second, you mention having to fight for attention against the NFL. SDSU MBB has had no problem with attention because they have put a great product on the court. The same will happen with the football team when they give the community an expectation of success and not failure. I watch the Chargers on Sundays expecting them to win and am disappointed when they don't. I feel the same with SDSU MBB. I am just not in that place with the football team. Expectations of success are replaced by concern they are going to $hit the bed as they have so many times before. So the rebuttal I would make to your last paragraph is that Aztecs Football is not in a fight for attention, but rather a fight for expectations. They will never grow attendance beyond the dedicated alumni without success on the field - no matter where that field is or who they share it with. I have serious doubts that a stadium will be designed for a great game day experience for both the Aztecs and Chargers. Could it be done? Possibly. Will it be done? Probably not. Using the Pitt/Steelers shared stadium at Heinz Field as an example; that NFL/college partnership has failed to accommodate the expectations of the University of Pittsburgh. No true college game day environment will ever be achieved sharing an NFL stadium. A shared stadium between the Chargers and Aztecs will likely have the same result as the Pitt & Steelers shared stadium. That is, Pitt feels like it is playing in someone else's stadium because the stadium was primarily designed for the Pittsburgh Steelers. The basketball team has developed a great program. However, they also have great facilities, a great coach and don't have to compete with a local NBA team.
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Post by rebar619 on Apr 2, 2015 15:29:53 GMT -8
You and I agree on what is needed for SDSU FB to succeed with the exception of the involvement the Chargers do/don't have in it. First, SDSU has to have a good facility to play in. I think that we can agree on. It is important for recruits and fans alike. A stadium on the existing campus would be great, but it is not going to happen according to Jim Sterk. The next option is MV. I have no doubt that a stadium can be designed that makes for a great game day experience for the Aztecs and Chargers. I have many thoughts on that I will not bore you with. Second, you mention having to fight for attention against the NFL. SDSU MBB has had no problem with attention because they have put a great product on the court. The same will happen with the football team when they give the community an expectation of success and not failure. I watch the Chargers on Sundays expecting them to win and am disappointed when they don't. I feel the same with SDSU MBB. I am just not in that place with the football team. Expectations of success are replaced by concern they are going to $hit the bed as they have so many times before. So the rebuttal I would make to your last paragraph is that Aztecs Football is not in a fight for attention, but rather a fight for expectations. They will never grow attendance beyond the dedicated alumni without success on the field - no matter where that field is or who they share it with. I have serious doubts that a stadium will be designed for a great game day experience for both the Aztecs and Chargers. Could it be done? Possibly. Will it be done? Probably not. Using the Pitt/Steelers shared stadium at Heinz Field as an example; that NFL/college partnership has failed to accommodate the expectations of the University of Pittsburgh. No true college game day environment will ever be achieved sharing an NFL stadium. A shared stadium between the Chargers and Aztecs will likely have the same result as the Pitt & Steelers shared stadium. That is, Pitt feels like it is playing in someone else's stadium because the stadium was primarily designed for the Pittsburgh Steelers. The basketball team has developed a great program. However, they also have great facilities, a great coach and don't have to compete with a local NBA team. Something that is missing from the equation is the aspect of SDSU expanding the campus in MV. It would be a one of a kind situation where an NFL team would essentially be playing at a college campus. As I recall, when Heinz Field was done Pitt was not involved in depth. I think there is enough discussion in our stadium situation that SDSU will have input on the project. As I suggest is true with the football team, I would argue that the basketball program would be as successful as it is now even if there was an NBA team in town. Personally I have never watched the NBA and could care less. I follow Aztec MBB because they represent SDSU. Their success (and the Show) has made them a great program, not the absence of an NBA team.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2015 16:00:28 GMT -8
I don't know Rebar...look at UCLA and their BB program. They struggle to sell out even with all their history, facilities, and massive local population. Maybe the Lakers and Clippers don't effect them...but I find it a little hard to believe. I get what you're saying about them rep'ing SDSU, but you went to the school. 90%+ of SD did not attend the school, when competing for their attention the less competition we have the better I would say. That being said I would not expect the absence of the Chargers to increase our fans automatically. But if we sniffed any real success we'd probably have a larger pool of bandwagon fans to pull from.
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Post by Ghost Dad on Apr 2, 2015 16:06:11 GMT -8
Clippers left San Diego in 1984 Cox Arena was built in 1997 Steve Fisher was hired in 1999 Aztec basketball won it's 1st NCAA tournament game in 2011
If history repeats itself, 2033 will be the year that former Michigan head coach Jim Harbaugh leads the Aztecs to it's first-ever win in the College Football Playoff.
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Post by aztecgold on Apr 3, 2015 15:18:49 GMT -8
AW, I have to follow your logic here. You are one that advocates that removal of the NFL from San Diego will help SDSU FB prosper (IIRC, correct me if I am wrong). If I am reading your post correctly you are saying SD cannot support NFL or MLB. So if SD cant support the premier level of football or baseball with teams that have played in title games and have had success, how do you expect SD to support SDSU FB when it has NO chance at playing in a title game and is part of an irrelevant conference? Personally I think the two serve different entertainment interests and SDSU FB will succeed with a winning product on the field - regardless of if that field is shared with the Chargers or not. There is an appetite for college football in SD, just as there is for NFL. The issue is putting a winning product on the field, or at the very least inspiring the hope there will be a winning product. That is what you are seeing in the Padres this year and has been established by SDSU MBB and the Chargers at times. At the end of the day it is entertainment. It doesnt matter if it is professional or "amateur". To succeed in entertainment you either have to have a captive audience (hello Green Bay and Cleveland), or produce a product people want to see. BTW, losing to Navy on your home field does not qualify as a product people want to see. You are partly correct. I'll try to sort out what I find correct and what I find flawed in your post. * San Diego (specifically the city) Really cannot afford to put up several hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayer money simply to make pro football fans and the Spanos family feel good. If the Chargers could build their own stadium on land they buy, that's fine. No doubt the city will end up spending some money on access roads, etc., but that would be much preferable to the deal (or should I say "steal") that the Chargers hope they will get. * In order to succeed in the long term, the Aztecs need to do several things. They need to hire a coach who, in the manner of Don Coryell and Steve Fisher, is a dramatic game changer. That will not be easy to do, since hiring coaches who turn out not to be very good is easier than hiring outstanding ones. They also need, in my view, to divorce themselves from the Chargers. I understand why the school opted to play in San Diego Stadium in 1967, but it's clear now that however much that made sense then, sharing a stadium with an NFL team is less than ideal. The best case would be to build a stadium on campus. Next best, and this is in a sense a variation of the first concept, take over the Mission Valley site for educational purposes but also in order eventually to be able to raze the Q and build a 40,000 stadium more suited to the needs of an FBS program. Here's a point to keep in mind. SDSU's football program took off and captured the imagination of the city at a time when the Chargers were mediocre and not yet part of the NFL. The Chargers represented much less competition then than they now do. If the Chargers move, there will be a lot of local fans who will not be buying season tickets to follow the Los Angeles Chargers. I don't expect too many of them to become Aztec fans overnight, but eventually the absence of a pro team here will give the Aztecs a chance to be the favorite team of generations yet to come, people who will not have grown up with "Go Chargers" blinking on message boards on the back of transit busses. But, of course, the Aztecs are going to have to be winning 9, 10, 11 or more games a year to close that deal. No more losing to mediocre Navy teams because of missing an easy field goal on the game's last play. Aztec football has to get a lot better than it now is in order to be taken seriously here and nation-wide. But that would be easier to do without having to fight for attention against the NFL. IF the Aztecs have to continue sharing a stadium with the Chargers, reaching the goal all Aztec football fans hope for will be possible but a lot harder than if the school did not have to play second fiddle to a pro team. How many perennial Top-25 FBS schools share a stadium with an NFL franchise? The Hurricanes do, but they also do not draw terribly well. Right off hand I cannot think of another really successful FBS school that plays in an NFL stadium. I don't think that's just a coincidence. AzWm USC did it with the Rams and the Raiders. They haven't done too badly. I think the argument for their own stadium is way overstated.
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Post by SD Johnny on Apr 27, 2015 20:45:41 GMT -8
San Diego isn't Baltimore and just about economist out there not employed by the NFL will tell you stadiums are terrible financial deals for the cities. San Diego is very much like Baltimore. I guess you didn't bother to read the story before typing. "San Diego and Baltimore have a lot of similarities. San Diego is the 28th-largest media market in the America. Baltimore is 26th-largest. Both cities are coastal communities with a large Navy presence. Both have two major professional sports franchises, an MLB team and an NFL team. If things keep going the way they are, both cities will have lost their pro football teams. You and others keep pointing out economists. NOBODY has ever said that a stadium is a money maker overall. You'd be quite surprised at how little the Convention Center makes. Look it up. Has your opinion changed on Baltimore? Think they've got much going for them in the way of tourism?
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Post by untitled on Apr 27, 2015 21:11:08 GMT -8
Baltimore. Come for the Ravens, stay for the 7/11s
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Post by longtimebooster on Apr 27, 2015 21:21:14 GMT -8
I don't know Rebar...look at UCLA and their BB program. They struggle to sell out even with all their history, facilities, and massive local population. Maybe the Lakers and Clippers don't effect them...but I find it a little hard to believe. I get what you're saying about them rep'ing SDSU, but you went to the school. 90%+ of SD did not attend the school, when competing for their attention the less competition we have the better I would say. That being said I would not expect the absence of the Chargers to increase our fans automatically. But if we sniffed any real success we'd probably have a larger pool of bandwagon fans to pull from. That's because student apathy for sports at UCLA is rampant. Has to do with massively shifting demographics. 20% of the UCLA class composition is from overseas -- mostly from Asia. Another 25% is from out of state. 55% is female. Those are not powerhouse sports fans. So it's a far cry from the '60s and '70s when the student body was comprised of about 70% male, 1% international and maybe 1% Asian. The current composition is great for academics, but bad for sports attendance.
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Post by Ambivalent_Fan on Apr 28, 2015 15:57:07 GMT -8
Well...Baltimore certainly is a great sports town...
Nothing to discuss there except the Ravens and the Orioles...
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