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Post by miners22 on Dec 18, 2014 18:12:45 GMT -8
PLAYER COACH LIKES COACH TRUST
JJ O'Brien YES YES
Winton Shepard YES YES
Dwayne Polee YES YES
A. Quinn YES YES
Skylar Spencer YES YES
Trey Kell YES YES
Matt Shrigley YES NO
Darkari Allen YES NO
Angleo Chol YES NO
Kevin Zabo YES NO
Malik Pope YES NO
It is obvious that some players have yet to gain Fisher's trust in order to log more playing time during the game. And, some players who have gained Fisher's trust to play can lose it when they (i.e Winston Shepard and Dwayne Polee) do not play/perform up to their potential. However, the trust factor has to get stronger for Fisher to play the players and his style of basketball he has committed to play.
It may be too late for Fisher and his staff to do a complete line-up/rotation overhaul, but I never say never. Moreover, it is clear to me that only two players seem to have worked on their games over the off-season and have shown improvement. And those players are Shepard and Quinn. Although Winston still tends to disappear during course of the game, he stepped up to the Free-Throw line last night and made two (2) BIG TIME pressure free-throws! Quinn is dis- playing leadership and a calmness on the Court, but he has to be more consistent and selective with his perimeter shots.
Again, this Aztecs group is under a lot of PRESSURE to live up to lofty expectations that were created by TEAMS/PLAYERS before they arrived on the Mesa!! The MWC League is wide open for San Diego State, Boise State, Colorado State and Wyoming to WIN it all! These teams will BEAT UP all the other teams in the MWC, but their games will be hotly contested. Before San Diego State lost a game, I predicted that San Diego State would go UNDEFEATED in MWC League play. After last night's game, my prediction is shaky. Hopefully, the untrustworthy players can build up their TRUST FUND with Fisher before MWC League play begins in a few weeks.
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Post by sdcoug on Dec 18, 2014 18:41:03 GMT -8
PLAYER COACH LIKES COACH TRUST JJ O'Brien YES YES Winton Shepard YES YES Dwayne Polee YES YES A. Quinn YES YES Skylar Spencer YES YES Trey Kell YES YES Matt Shrigley YES NO Darkari Allen YES NO Angleo Chol YES NO Kevin Zabo YES NO Malik Pope YES NO It is obvious that some players have yet to gain Fisher's trust in order to log more playing time during the game. And, some players who have gained Fisher's trust to play can lose it when they (i.e Winston Shepard and Dwayne Polee) do not play/perform up to their potential. However, the trust factor has to get stronger for Fisher to play the players and his style of basketball he has committed to play. It may be too late for Fisher and his staff to do a complete line-up/rotation overhaul, but I never say never. Moreover, it is clear to me that only two players seem to have worked on their games over the off-season and have shown improvement. And those players are Shepard and Quinn. Although Winston still tends to disappear during course of the game, he stepped up to the Free-Throw line last night and made two (2) BIG TIME pressure free-throws! Quinn is dis- playing leadership and a calmness on the Court, but he has to be more consistent and selective with his perimeter shots. Again, this Aztecs group is under a lot of PRESSURE to live up to lofty expectations that were created by TEAMS/PLAYERS before they arrived on the Mesa!! The MWC League is wide open for San Diego State, Boise State, Colorado State and Wyoming to WIN it all! These teams will BEAT UP all the other teams in the MWC, but their games will be hotly contested. Before San Diego State lost a game, I predicted that San Diego State would go UNDEFEATED in MWC League play. After last night's game, my prediction is shaky. Hopefully, the untrustworthy players can build up their TRUST FUND with Fisher before MWC League play begins in a few weeks. Not sure how "coach like" plays into this? Are you saying a coach may not like someone?
I think a key component you're missing in your yes/no assignment is available minutes (& talent). You don't play 10-12 guys simply because you "like" or "trust" them. They have to be better than the other 9.
Disagree on Allen - I think he DEFINITELY has the coaches trust, but he simply isn't on the same level as the starters when it comes to overall talent. You're not going to bench Shepard for Allen. Chol gets minutes (40%), so think he has their trust as well. Skyler just brings a lot more defensively. Shrigs sure looked like he has their trust as well last night. Not a good shooting night be lots of minutes.
Do think the jury is still out on Zabo & Pope, but I'd expect that this year in the season among FR. Especially Pope who hasn't really done much in games yet.
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Post by dupree on Dec 18, 2014 19:36:34 GMT -8
IMO we are having a bad identity crisis right now. We say we take pride in being a great defensive team but we play players that consistently get blown by on defense and they stay in the game because they might hit a jumper. We all have feed into the we dont have an offense or cant shoot. When has the aztecs ever been know for offense? We are now giving up on having great defense in sake of this or that player may score. Last night we looked great when we were pressing up and creating turnovers. Whenever we get back to our true identity of playing great defense, taking care of the ball, and hitting timely shots we will be fine.
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Post by sdgaucho on Dec 18, 2014 21:42:17 GMT -8
Last night was telling, fish went with the 8 that he trusts right NOW. I've got to think that the next 3 weeks will be a try out of sorts. You know what you've got in WS, JJ, AQ, DP, ETC. The freshman/sophomores are the unknown, I'd guess that someone steps up and cracks fishers 8/9. At least I hope so because these guys are killing me.
Sent from my SM-G900V using proboards
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Post by miners22 on Dec 19, 2014 6:44:33 GMT -8
Here are few examples for you to support my thread. Do you agree or disagree that Fisher liked Alec Williams and trusted him to play? I believe Fisher liked him, but he did not trust his playing ability.
Do you agree or disagree that Fisher liked James Johnson and trusted him to play? I believe Fisher liked him, but did not trust him? I believe Fisher liked him, but he did not trust his playing ability.
The best example is LaBradford Franklin. I am certain that Fisher liked him, but he did not trust his playing ability. Moreover, let's be candid here, Coaches are about wins and loses!! Yes, Fisher and his Staff have built a prestigious basketball program during his tenure, but do not forget, for Fisher and any other Coach in America, its about WINS and LOSSES!!
Even though JJ O'Brien is not the most talented, athletic, fastest or strongest player in basketball pants and sneakers, Fisher trust his playing ability. Fisher knows exactly what JJ is going to do during the course of the game. Fisher knows exactly what Skylar Spencer is going to do during the course of the game.
Occasionally, Fisher has a player like Shepard and Polee whom have gained his trust, but Fisher knows how erratic their play can be and sometimes he does not know what they may or may not do during the course of game.
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Post by sdcoug on Dec 19, 2014 10:51:41 GMT -8
Here are few examples for you to support my thread. Do you agree or disagree that Fisher liked Alec Williams and trusted him to play? I believe Fisher liked him, but he did not trust his playing ability. Do you agree or disagree that Fisher liked James Johnson and trusted him to play? I believe Fisher liked him, but did not trust him? I believe Fisher liked him, but he did not trust his playing ability. The best example is LaBradford Franklin. I am certain that Fisher liked him, but he did not trust his playing ability. Moreover, let's be candid here, Coaches are about wins and loses!! Yes, Fisher and his Staff have built a prestigious basketball program during his tenure, but do not forget, for Fisher and any other Coach in America, its about WINS and LOSSES!! Even though JJ O'Brien is not the most talented, athletic, fastest or strongest player in basketball pants and sneakers, Fisher trust his playing ability. Fisher knows exactly what JJ is going to do during the course of the game. Fisher knows exactly what Skylar Spencer is going to do during the course of the game. Occasionally, Fisher has a player like Shepard and Polee whom have gained his trust, but Fisher knows how erratic their play can be and sometimes he does not know what they may or may not do during the course of game. Again, what does "Like" have to do with any of this? Who doesn't he "like"? And how does available PT play into this? Can't he "trust" someone's game yet still not play them much because another player is better? Just don't get the whole point of the thread?
Fisher typically plays an 8-man rotation (maybe 9). Does that mean he doesn't "like" or "trust" the remaining 4-5, or could it be those 8 just happen to be ahead of the others right now?
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Post by standiego on Dec 19, 2014 11:39:41 GMT -8
As you have said and has Fisher that he likes this team and the players all 13 and the walk ons - who are guys that rally work hard with out that much reward - especially for a team that can Not score enough to blow out teams and get them PT.
To be honest I think Fisher only really' trusts' JJ and maybe AQ. We have all seen Shepard , Polee and Spencer go to the bench for not exactly performing up to their standards as third , fourth or fifth year players , and are not always there at crunch time , when you may need to "trust" players . But you need 5 . It seems he also really appreciated Kell's court sense ( even though I believe he should be playing SG not PG ) . He also favors Shrigley , who I guess he hopes will be the 3 point shooter, still gives him PT with 23% 3 PT shooting and 16% 2PT shooting . He also has confidence this year that Allen will give the team its best effort covering the other teams best wing shooter ,
Would guess he needs to see more production on the court from Zabo and Pope , add a rusty Chol , Zylan (who is injured ), plus Williams who gets little PT . Personally believe Zabo and Pope need additional PT ,during the next three games to really see what they can do . Very difficult to really get a solid read on 12 to 13 guys . an adjustment the coaches need to make, Very important for the coach to honestly talk with each player to let them know where they stand with him . Or we could have numerous players who may not stay. Winning helps but they want PT . Hope most will stay and Production improves.
We are all human . We like certain players , may even see their positives more then the negatives . Same with the coaches,but they have the PT Power. There are also players we do not think make as many contributions as others and we feel do not merit the PT .
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Post by miners22 on Dec 19, 2014 23:00:17 GMT -8
TRUST is crucial for a Coach to play a certain player during the course of a game! And, if a prior POST about Quinn taking Polee's starting position, then, it appears my theory may have some validity, huh? I believe that with Fisher benching Polee in favor of Quinn, this goes to show you how much he/Fisher TRUST Quinn over Polee who came out of HS as one of the Top College prospects in the Nation!
Lest we forget, Polee started as a Freshman for St. John's University! Quinn was an unknown at Cal State Northridge, walked on at San Diego State and has become an integral part of a Top Ranked College team! WOW! I believe that Fisher is sending a couple of messages to his TEAM by benching Polee.
1. Fisher message is, if you do not play well and/or perform up to your ability, I will bench you;
2. Fisher message is, no player's starting position is guaranteed regardless of class;
Personally, I do not believe Polee is going to adjust coming off the bench behind a player who was a walk-on. Also, I believe Polee will suffer psychological damage because this is his SENIOR year. Well, at least, he will start again on SENIOR night. Fisher believes the message he wants Polee to receive is that benching him is not punitive, but the team needs him/Polee to come off the bench and be a "spark plug" like he was last season.
I am not certain that Quinn should be a starter because now, the Aztecs have gotten smaller and slower. Polee was by far the fastest and quickest starter in the line- up. O'Brien is slow; Quinn is slow, Kell is slow; Winston is slow and Skylar stays home in paint where he is supposed to be. Fisher is also, sending a message to Winston as well. It appears that Fisher silent message to his team is that he is prepared to play his young players, so they can develop, gain valuable playing experience and get ready for the next season.
Don't be surprised to see Fisher juggle his starting line-ups and we might see Chol starting; Zabo starting and Pope. This season started out on a bright note with the prospect of this Aztec team dominating the MWC League this season like they did last season. Now, with Colorado State, Boise State and boring Wyoming playing well, Fisher and his Staff are concerned. The next few games are going to be interest- ing to watch the dynamics between Fisher, Polee and his teammates.
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Post by MarshallU on Dec 20, 2014 8:18:43 GMT -8
Here are few examples for you to support my thread. Do you agree or disagree that Fisher liked Alec Williams and trusted him to play? I believe Fisher liked him, but he did not trust his playing ability. Do you agree or disagree that Fisher liked James Johnson and trusted him to play? I believe Fisher liked him, but did not trust him? I believe Fisher liked him, but he did not trust his playing ability. The best example is LaBradford Franklin. I am certain that Fisher liked him, but he did not trust his playing ability. Moreover, let's be candid here, Coaches are about wins and loses!! Yes, Fisher and his Staff have built a prestigious basketball program during his tenure, but do not forget, for Fisher and any other Coach in America, its about WINS and LOSSES!! Even though JJ O'Brien is not the most talented, athletic, fastest or strongest player in basketball pants and sneakers, Fisher trust his playing ability. Fisher knows exactly what JJ is going to do during the course of the game. Fisher knows exactly what Skylar Spencer is going to do during the course of the game. Occasionally, Fisher has a player like Shepard and Polee whom have gained his trust, but Fisher knows how erratic their play can be and sometimes he does not know what they may or may not do during the course of game. Again, what does "Like" have to do with any of this? Who doesn't he "like"? And how does available PT play into this? Can't he "trust" someone's game yet still not play them much because another player is better? Just don't get the whole point of the thread?
Fisher typically plays an 8-man rotation (maybe 9). Does that mean he doesn't "like" or "trust" the remaining 4-5, or could it be those 8 just happen to be ahead of the others right now?
Exactly. In every example Mr. Chase used he put a YES in the "coach likes" column. What's the point if everyone meets that criteria?
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Post by miners22 on Dec 20, 2014 10:07:01 GMT -8
You are correct. However, TRUSTING a player goes far beyond the Court. A player can do so silly stuff off the Court and Coach does not like the same. But, the player on the Court performance in most cases may outweigh what he did off the Court to PISS Fisher off!
For example, I am certain that Fisher like Wade, Williams, Franklin, and etc.., but when these same players did something silly off the Court, the same did not sit well with Fisher. Chase and others are no different. Some Coaches get upset when a player misses classes, late for practices and/or not fond of participating in Community events and etc.. As a result, some Coaches, not stating that Fisher is this way, will remember player's discretion when it is time for a "SUBSTUTION!"
Believe me when I tell you that Coaches are human and they remember the players that do not follow the rules, always causing havoc, brushes with law (i.e. dui, assaults), smoking weed and etc.. Likewise, they love the player that follows the rules, never late for practice/meetings, does what he is told do, Coaches remember this when he decides to make a "SUBSTUTION and STARTING lineup."
Again, every player involved in a team sport loves to be in the STARTING LINEUP! When you are a STARTER and get benched for a player whom the Coach likes, it will PISS you off! And, if he does not PISS said player off, then, I question his competitiveness and ego!!
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Post by standiego on Dec 20, 2014 10:42:06 GMT -8
Fisher on the radio the other night , after watching and breaking down the game . Way too many TO's 11 in the first half , some times we did not get the ball over mid court so not even a shot means zero chance of scoring , bottom line we need to add another true guard to help handle the ball . Also 5 of 25 on threes 20% , many with good looks . So need to adjust the offense , more inside play and movement , less 3 point shooting . We also get not get as many FT opportunities. We also needed more rebounding on the offensive end . , I like Polee but he has not been producing , so maybe going back to 6th man might jump start him . Would strongly suggest it was production that is causing the switch not any other reason.
Also important to have guys playing in their comfort zone and position they played in HS . Kell moving to his natural position SG , to help score in a variety of ways . Could also free up some PG time for Zabo , a natural PG ,who is also shooting 40% from 3 point land . Or get Pope involved , who if healthy can create shots in a variety of ways . Some asked about Shrigley . Another poster who watched him often at LCC noted , he was more of a scorer then a true 3 point shooter . He used his red shirt season trying to learn to be a 3 point shooter . It is not easy coming off the bench and being that 3 point shooter . Fisher gave him every opportunity last year and this year . Noted he is incredible in practice but that it has not translated to games this year ,about 20% . Team needs to use an offense that uses its talent to the max athleticism not three point shooting . Aztecs have added an adjustment to the offense , more inside play and movement . Hit their first couple of shots and were 53% on 2 point shots , plus put backs , and FT 's . So maybe continue to work on that system instead of the threes.
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Post by uwphoto on Dec 20, 2014 11:01:12 GMT -8
Fisher on the radio the other night , after watching and breaking down the game . Way too many TO's 11 in the first half , some times we did not get the ball over mid court so not even a shot means zero chance of scoring , bottom line we need to add another true guard to help handle the ball . Also 5 of 25 on threes 20% , many with good looks . So need to adjust the offense , more inside play and movement , less 3 point shooting . We also get not get as many FT opportunities. We also needed more rebounding on the offensive end . , I like Polee but he has not been producing , so maybe going back to 6th man might jump start him . Would strongly suggest it was production that is causing the switch not any other reason. Also important to have guys playing in their comfort zone and position they played in HS . Kell moving to his natural position SG , to help score in a variety of ways . Could also free up some PG time for Zabo , a natural PG ,who is also shooting 40% from 3 point land . Or get Pope involved , who if healthy can create shots in a variety of ways . Some asked about Shrigley . Another poster who watched him often at LCC noted , he was more of a scorer then a true 3 point shooter . He used his red shirt season trying to learn to be a 3 point shooter . It is not easy coming off the bench and being that 3 point shooter . Fisher gave him every opportunity last year and this year . Noted he is incredible in practice but that it has not translated to games this year ,about 20% . Team needs to use an offense that uses its talent to the max athleticism not three point shooting . Aztecs have added an adjustment to the offense , more inside play and movement . Hit their first couple of shots and were 53% on 2 point shots , plus put backs , and FT 's . So maybe continue to work on that system instead of the threes. Agree with your points here, especially Shrigley. If he is allowed to be more diverse in the offense, I think that would help. Make a couple mid-range or drive. If his history is not solely as a 3-point specialist, it may be mentally limiting his effectiveness. Shrigley strikes me as a guy who is tight and not playing free. Also like Zabo at point and move Kell back to SG.
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Post by standiego on Dec 20, 2014 11:28:16 GMT -8
There is only so much PT for the reserves . So I would like to see more PT for Pope , if he is healthy he could be someone who could add a lot to the offense . Chol can divide time with Spencer , Polee at SG or SF , Zabo with AQ , Pope or Allen at wing (with Shepard moving to PF - when JJ is out / if Zylan Red Shirts ) That is 8 -10 guys that deserve some opportunity . Shrigley has had an opportunity this year and last- but is a Fisher Favorite , so would be nice if others also have a chance to show what they can do .
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Post by miners22 on Dec 20, 2014 13:36:36 GMT -8
Concur with your comments about low production, too many turnovers, poor shooting and etc.., but Polee and Shrigley are not the only players that fit this criteria!!
Correct me if I am incorrect, but I believe Winston has more turn- overs than any player. JJ is not breaking the bank with production and Quinn is still recovering from an arm/hand injury. I believe Shrigley was playing fairly well until he suffered his injury. And, I agree that Shrigley has more to his game than just standing around on the perimeter waiting for the ball to launch a 3 pointer.
I believe the issue with San Diego State teams in the past and present is the lack of BIG who can produce offensively and defensively!! Maybe Fisher and his staff do no want the traditional BIG on the low block because of his offensive philosophy that he has Coached all of his life. Maybe Fisher and staff have tried to recruit a traditional BIG, but just cannot seem to get same to the Mesa. I have no idea why he cannot recruit a traditional BIG, but I do know that his team's lack of scoring INSIDE the paint is a problem and has been for years!!
The lack of a BIG who can score inside, command a double-team from the defense and has the ability to pass the ball to his teammates for easy looks on the perimeter is critical to the game. It seems that every team San Diego State plays in a game that will decide the Championship, said team has a BIG who can score in the low block, rebound and defend, but San Diego State does not have said player.
Yes, Fisher's teams have done wonders without having a traditional BIG on the low block!! However, by not having an offensive threat on the low block and/or in the paint, puts a lot of pressure on his perimeter players to knock down jump shots. With the invention of the Computer and now, social media, all of us have had to adjust/change our methods of doing our jobs and communication.
Maybe Fisher and his staff need to take the time and consider making serious adjustments and/or changes to their offensive and defensive philosophy and/strategy. Just an opinion. What may have worked to get the job done yesterday, may not be good enough to get the job done today! "You play to win the game."
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Post by MontezumasRevenge on Dec 20, 2014 13:42:59 GMT -8
Concur with your comments about low production, too many turnovers, poor shooting and etc.., but Polee and Shrigley are not the only players that fit this criteria!! Correct me if I am incorrect, but I believe Winston has more turn- overs than any player. JJ is not breaking the bank with production and Quinn is still recovering from an arm/hand injury. I believe Shrigley was playing fairly well until he suffered his injury. And, I agree that Shrigley has more to his game than just standing around on the perimeter waiting for the ball to launch a 3 pointer. I believe the issue with San Diego State teams in the past and present is the lack of BIG who can produce offensively and defensively!! Maybe Fisher and his staff do no want the traditional BIG on the low block because of his offensive philosophy that he has Coached all of his life. Maybe Fisher and staff have tried to recruit a traditional BIG, but just cannot seem to get same to the Mesa. I have no idea why he cannot recruit a traditional BIG, but I do know that his team's lack of scoring INSIDE the paint is a problem and has been for years!! The lack of a BIG who can score inside, command a double-team from the defense and has the ability to pass the ball to his teammates for easy looks on the perimeter is critical to the game. It seems that every team San Diego State plays in a game that will decide the Championship, said team has a BIG who can score in the low block, rebound and defend, but San Diego State does not have said player. Yes, Fisher's teams have done wonders without having a traditional BIG on the low block!! However, by not having an offensive threat on the low block and/or in the paint, puts a lot of pressure on his perimeter players to knock down jump shots. With the invention of the Computer and now, social media, all of us have had to adjust/change our methods of doing our jobs and communication. Maybe Fisher and his staff need to take the time and consider making serious adjustments and/or changes to their offensive and defensive philosophy and/strategy. Just an opinion. What may have worked to get the job done yesterday, may not be good enough to get the job done today! "You play to win the game." Chol has demonstrated all these abilities. I agree with those that say we need to run our offense thru him more. Been frustrating to see him with good position on the low block and not get the ball.
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Post by standiego on Dec 20, 2014 14:12:26 GMT -8
the coaches have done a great job of recruiting very athletic players . As you said maybe time to adjust the offense . They did put in an adjustment last week , getting the ball inside then more ball movement , to guys moving to the basket . They did some against CINCY but not enough as there were 25 3 's taken and 20 missed . Coach said he wants to expand on that tonight . I also think it maybe time to push a more up tempo offense , running attacking the basket , more passing . Maybe a zone could kick start transition points . We are quick and when we do not use that quickness and athleticism we only help the opposition , who I do not think could keep up with us . Run them , it may tire both teams but I believe we have a deep bench . Spencer and Chol should feel as though they are part of the offense , not just there for ball screens . But if it is only going to happen once in a while they start to just relax on offense . A Good Offense does not just happen , you need to work on plays, create opportunities, or the guys just start dribbling and playing one on one basketball . M.Thomas may not have been a true big , but he was an offensive threat . Just as the guys need to play smarter , so do the coaches , help the flow of the offense according to our strengths and talents .
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