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Post by Montequilla on Nov 21, 2014 6:27:21 GMT -8
For as long as I can remember, Fisher likes to get the rotation down to 8 maybe 9 guys come conference play time. After watching last nights game, I am a huge advocate of the platoon system. Kentucky does it because they are LOADED with talent. I think the Aztecs should do it so they can keep up the defensive intensity for the whole 40 mins of play.
Playing full court man to man, switching each and every ball screen, running around like wild men can get tiring and hard to keep up for the whole game. When you sub in 5 new fresh legs, the aztecs can never take the foot off the gas defensively. So far this year, you can all tell we are not going to beat anybody by simply outscoring them in a shoot out. We will win by the defense and the relentless pressure.
Divide up the minutes something like each platoon gets 16 minutes a game. And then that leaves 8 minutes for situational line ups at the end of each half.
What do you guys think?
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Post by KickAztec on Nov 21, 2014 6:30:44 GMT -8
I agree with this idea and was thinking the same thing during the Utah game. We should go to an approach of 40 minutes of hell.
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Post by aztecsig on Nov 21, 2014 6:51:37 GMT -8
I think this is a good notion to explore. I could see lots of upsides to the platoon concept, maybe even something like Freshmen and soph (plus Chol), vs Jr. and Srs. I like it! Imagine running practice like that. Also, I could see this as a recruiting plus.
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Post by fatfreddy on Nov 21, 2014 6:52:46 GMT -8
In Conf. Games probably see a little more of that. Conf. Tourney even more..... March Madness 40 mins of hell
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 7:17:53 GMT -8
I think that the starting five do not compliment each other's offensive game very well. Shep and JJ's games are so similar. They both play defense and can do so at multiple positions. They both can handle the ball a little bit. They both can drive but struggle to finish. They both don't have much of an outside or midrange game. They can both rebound some. I think that Shep looked better last night when he was at the four towards the end of the game. Winston would be better served to get more physical. He spends too much time trying to play a finesse game that requires a skill level that he simply doesn't have yet.
Spencer is a great shot blocker. He underachieves on the boards and has a very limited offensive game. One of Skylar's problems on the boards and certainly on offense are his hands. With four guys packed inside, every time Spencer received a pass or attempted to grab a rebound all the hands clawing at him seemed to really bother him.Kell is freshman playing out of position which has left him hesitant in his own offensive game. Not being a natural point guard he isn't creating many chances for his teammates at this early point in his college career. Polee is trying too hard. In the tradition of Franklin and Thames his body language seems to be saying "somebody has to take the shot". He hasn't yet found a rhythm and seems to be pressing.
Is it time to experiment with different lineups? I'd like to see Winston at the four where he can be aggressive on the boards and on defense. He has played a lot at the guard positions but seems to lack the skills to play at a high level at the 1,2, or 3. Let's see what kind of offensive chemistry can be created with some different line ups.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 8:31:13 GMT -8
We can do it and we don't even have a healthy Shrigley or Cheatham. It's crazy advantageous.
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Post by matteosandiego on Nov 21, 2014 8:42:46 GMT -8
The players will force Fishers hand depending on how much intensity and how well they play defense.
Fisher is in a great spot because he has so many players. He doesnt have to pander to anyone. If you play defense and hustle, you will get mixed in and earn yourself an opportunity. It only motivates the players to play harder on defense which is amazing.
Our offense needs to figure itself out, but im the meantime we are going to make it HELL for opposing teams to score!
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Post by pbbroker on Nov 21, 2014 8:52:49 GMT -8
I think that the starting five do not compliment each other's offensive game very well. Shep and JJ's games are so similar. They both play defense and can do so at multiple positions. They both can handle the ball a little bit. They both can drive but struggle to finish. They both don't have much of an outside or midrange game. They can both rebound some. I think that Shep looked better last night when he was at the four towards the end of the game. Winston would be better served to get more physical. He spends too much time trying to play a finesse game that requires a skill level that he simply doesn't have yet. Spencer is a great shot blocker. He underachieves on the boards and has a very limited offensive game. One of Skylar's problems on the boards and certainly on offense are his hands. With four guys packed inside, every time Spencer received a pass or attempted to grab a rebound all the hands clawing at him seemed to really bother him.Kell is freshman playing out of position which has left him hesitant in his own offensive game. Not being a natural point guard he isn't creating many chances for his teammates at this early point in his college career. Polee is trying too hard. In the tradition of Franklin and Thames his body language seems to be saying "somebody has to take the shot". He hasn't yet found a rhythm and seems to be pressing. Is it time to experiment with different lineups? I'd like to see Winston at the four where he can be aggressive on the boards and on defense. He has played a lot at the guard positions but seems to lack the skills to play at a high level at the 1,2, or 3. Let's see what kind of offensive chemistry can be created with some different line ups. Dang we should fire fisher & you should take over. problem solved!
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Post by mnico213 on Nov 21, 2014 8:57:22 GMT -8
I don't know it seems like they compliment each other pretty well. I saw a lot of guys saying "good try" or "nice free throw stroke" out there.
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Post by aztecdan8 on Nov 21, 2014 9:09:03 GMT -8
Best, most well thought out and expressed posts I've seen in a long time.
Inherently, I trust Fish and his judgement- but - there may be exceptions. He was very hesitant to use the 1-3-1 in the NM game last year until he practically had nothing to lose. The other coaches were suggesting it, which told you they saw the opportunity and sense of trying that. He finally agreed and looked like a genius. Right now our press is so well played and has very few breakdowns, Fish might be very pleased with status quo. He is effusive in his praise of the D.
Using 10+ players is certainly outside what has been his comfort zone in the past, but I completely see the sense of trying it with this squad. This squad is SO deep and the skill sets of the players definitely lends to playing quick, long, tough base and pressure D. It's amazing to watch. So maybe if Fish isn't considering this quite yet, you have to think a coach or two- probably Hut, lol - sees what we see, and is Coach's ear about it.
Our talent can not only do this all game, they can even do so more intensely than they do now- trapping more and anticipating more in the backcourt and trapping hard around mid court. We create a ton of havoc and turnovers as we currently press, and we are so close on so many more near turnovers, I rub my hands together thinking of turning it up a notch or two. Most of our pressing last season and this is mostly to slow down the ball, and take time off the clock so the opponent isn't truly getting into their offense until the 20-25 second mark on the shot clock. We get steals opportunistically of our style of pressure and base D. It works really well, and our opponents typically only get a much shorter shot clock to make something happen. It's terrific to watch. But we can do more, I think.
The kids seem to love playing tough D, this approach definitely takes it up a notch. And consider this, D'Erryl Williams is getting virtually no playing time and he is a stud defender, and would be terrific in this 40 minutes of madness approach. The more we press and the more intensely we press, the better we will be at it. Plus, we are not good finishing on O after steals from the press, and we need to be. Those should some of the easiest points you ever get. Getting more chances to do so should create improved efficiency getting easy buckets off turnovers. Plus the more we score, the more we can actually set up the press. When we are in scoring droughts, we obviously can't set up the press, which takes away one of our biggest weapons..
Little appears to be more demoralizing to an opponent than being on the wrong side of 15-2 or 20-4 run. We can impart our will like few teams in the country A's we stand right now. if we pressed like maniacs all game long, wow, it would be fun to see what happened. With Sky and/or Chol and/or Pope, or even Shep on the back end of that press as a rim protector or shot swatter, I shutter to think how good we can be- and how fun it would be to see that. Let's hope Fish is seeing and thinking the same thing. With that said ... In Fish I Trust.
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Post by matteosandiego on Nov 21, 2014 9:10:03 GMT -8
I don't know it seems like they compliment each other pretty well. I saw a lot of guys saying "good try" or "nice free throw stroke" out there. i really appreciate AQ's leadership out there on the court. He seems to be very vocal and gathering the guys together at spots. I hardly would see this in previous years. Credit to him trying to assert himself more and try to help the guys gel and stay focused.
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Post by aztecdan8 on Nov 21, 2014 9:20:47 GMT -8
I don't know it seems like they compliment each other pretty well. I saw a lot of guys saying "good try" or "nice free throw stroke" out there. i really appreciate AQ's leadership out there on the court. He seems to be very vocal and gathering the guys together at spots. I hardly would see this in previous years. Credit to him trying to assert himself more and try to help the guys gel and stay focused. Great point. Plus, he seems to always have a big grin on his face like he's having the time of his life. I think that has to be infectious to the other guys... Like he's saying ... Man this is fun, we are really good and I am having the time of my life... Who's with me? I love it, you see it nearly every time the camera catches him.
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Post by ignoranus on Nov 21, 2014 9:31:36 GMT -8
AQ is a natural leader. Lucky for the Aztecs that he had enough self confidence to walk on!
He was right about himself.
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Post by matteosandiego on Nov 21, 2014 9:35:45 GMT -8
i really appreciate AQ's leadership out there on the court. He seems to be very vocal and gathering the guys together at spots. I hardly would see this in previous years. Credit to him trying to assert himself more and try to help the guys gel and stay focused. Great point. Plus, he seems to always have a big grin on his face like he's having the time of his life. I think that has to be infectious to the other guys... Like he's saying ... Man this is fun, we are really good and I am having the time of my life... Who's with me? I love it, you see it nearly every time the camera catches him. Exactly! For whatever anybody says or thinks about him as a player, He is going to be crucial this season in our transition to these younger PGs. AQ took a chance to be here, Everything he's experiencing here wasn't expected by anybody, so he really is living out his dream. And you're right about his body language.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 9:44:36 GMT -8
I think that the starting five do not compliment each other's offensive game very well. Shep and JJ's games are so similar. They both play defense and can do so at multiple positions. They both can handle the ball a little bit. They both can drive but struggle to finish. They both don't have much of an outside or midrange game. They can both rebound some. I think that Shep looked better last night when he was at the four towards the end of the game. Winston would be better served to get more physical. He spends too much time trying to play a finesse game that requires a skill level that he simply doesn't have yet. Spencer is a great shot blocker. He underachieves on the boards and has a very limited offensive game. One of Skylar's problems on the boards and certainly on offense are his hands. With four guys packed inside, every time Spencer received a pass or attempted to grab a rebound all the hands clawing at him seemed to really bother him.Kell is freshman playing out of position which has left him hesitant in his own offensive game. Not being a natural point guard he isn't creating many chances for his teammates at this early point in his college career. Polee is trying too hard. In the tradition of Franklin and Thames his body language seems to be saying "somebody has to take the shot". He hasn't yet found a rhythm and seems to be pressing. Is it time to experiment with different lineups? I'd like to see Winston at the four where he can be aggressive on the boards and on defense. He has played a lot at the guard positions but seems to lack the skills to play at a high level at the 1,2, or 3. Let's see what kind of offensive chemistry can be created with some different line ups. Dang we should fire fisher & you should take over. problem solved! I never said anything about coaching a basketball team. Coach seemed to be working out which lineups work on both ends. I wouldn't be surprised to see him make lineup changes.this would be a fun board if all that was posted was "in fish I trust" and "defense wins championships."
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Post by Aztec Since 88 on Nov 21, 2014 11:20:07 GMT -8
If you look at most teams who use the platoon system at the high school and college level, they do not win championships. The may have enough talent to win games not championships. Kentucky may be the exception this year, time will tell. Fisher needs to play different combos to find out who can play with each other, and who can come off the bench and contribute effectively.
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Post by gamer2101 on Nov 21, 2014 12:09:19 GMT -8
Coach already stated that he would be playing more guys than he has in the past. He also said the starting jobs will be flexible too, depending on performance in practice and/ or the opponent being played.
...and that's all I have to say about that.
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Post by standiego on Nov 21, 2014 14:27:54 GMT -8
As of now Red Team : Spencer , JJ -OB , Polee , Shepard and Kell Black team : Chol, Allen , Pope , AQ and Zabo + Williams As Fisher said the players production can determine PT . We have had different players step up in every game . Yesterday it was Allen , Zabo , Polee ,Chol on other days it was JJ , Shepard , Kell , AQ , Spencer's D . Pope is just starting . Think BYU game is very important to win . So who knows. But Coach could do Red then Black every TV time out then best players last 4 minutes depends on match ups and performances . Coach may also want to look at getting more motion in the offense and less dribbling 1 on 1 . Also last year in the Lobos game the 1-3-1 zone even got the offense going try a little zone , to kick start the offense and fast breaks.
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Post by Boise Aztec on Nov 21, 2014 14:40:33 GMT -8
As of now Red Team : Spencer , JJ -OB , Polee , Shepard and Kell Black team : Chol, Allen , Pope , AQ and Zabo + Williams As Fisher said the players production can determine PT . We have had different players step up in every game . Yesterday it was Allen , Zabo , Polee ,Chol on other days it was JJ , Shepard , Kell , AQ , Spencer's D . Pope is just starting . Think BYU game is very important to win . So who knows. But Coach could do Red then Black every TV time out then best players last 4 minutes depends on match ups and performances . Coach may also want to look at getting more motion in the offense and less dribbling 1 on 1 . Also last year in the Lobos game the 1-3-1 zone even got the offense going try a little zone , to kick start the offense and fast breaks. What happens when Shrigley amd Cheatham are ready to go? I think the Red Team listed above stays the same, but the Black team would likely be Chol, Zabo, Shrigley, Pope amd Cheatham. That would leave Allen, Williams and AQ without any minutes. Ouch! No matter whonit is, I think coach will have to play 10 players each game.
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Post by aztecdan8 on Nov 21, 2014 15:24:07 GMT -8
I am not suggesting 2 platoon teams doing hockey line changes, a la Kentucky. I am suggesting it would be interesting, exciting and innovative for the Aztecs to play 10+ guys using an extremely aggressive pressing and trapping D, with frequent subs to keep guys fresh to keep the pressure ratcheted up at all times ... an Aztecs version Nolan Richardson's "40 Minutes of Hell", call it "40 Minutes of Madness" that ties into Viejas' nickname of "The Madhouse on the Mesa", home games could "40 Minutes Of Madness in the Madhouse...".
For all the reasons I stated above, it could be epic. Would Coach Fisher do it? Would it make sense to him? Not sure, I'm pretty sure he's overjoyed with the D as it's playing now, and I dont disagree. It's unbelievably impressive, though still early in the season. Maybe if the offensive struggles continue, he may consider it, like he did the 1-3-1 for one portion of the Lobo game last season. He may go to it next week out of necessity if we find ourselves down more than a few points in any game in Maui. It may end being a happy accident to "stumble" across that.
I always thought we should have been pressing years ago given our length, athleticism and quickness- plus we just don't foul much. But Coach never did as he apparently never felt he had enough quality depth. Recently he has, thereby expanding his rotation and adding this soft press. Maybe now, as we clearly have more quality talent and depth than ever before, maybe he adds a more intense press and traps.
Again, I am not claiming to be a coach or smarter or wiser than Fish. Just observations and musings- absolutely no criticisms here.
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