|
Post by AztecBill on Oct 22, 2014 8:36:27 GMT -8
I don't understand the love for Quinn as the starting PG. He didn't turn the ball over much but he didn't handle the ball much. Shepard's stats shows he turned the ball over more but when you take it as a percentage of touches the difference between Shepard and Quinn falls to 3.5% of touches. If they both handled the ball as much as Thames did last year the difference in turnovers according to those stats would be 21.7 turnovers. There is no way Winston sits while Quinn is the PG. 22 turnovers in a season, if they handled it as often as Thames (which they wouldn't) is more than worth the difference between the two. Shepard is a better creator for himself and others, a much better rebounder, a much much better defender. Because Winston gets to the free throw line a bunch, his points per possession are much closer to Quinn than most think, even though Quinn shot 3s better and free throws better. Their TS% (the best measure of shooting taking into consideration free throws) was .497 versus .492. A difference of 1 point every 100 possessions. This doesn't take into consideration that Shepard will be much improved this season.
Having written this, I don't think Shepard will play much PG because he will be more valuable as a SF, which allows him to rebound with abandon. But having him at SF means our PG can just be the best guard available. I think that player will be Kell or possibly Zabo.
|
|
|
Post by standiego on Oct 22, 2014 8:44:10 GMT -8
Just hope the players are not as concerned as some of you are with the S5 . Great to be a starter but as we should have learned from Polee last year total playing minutes and what you produce is more important , then who gets the bows as they are introduced for the starting line up and play until the first TV time out at 16:00 . We all know Fisher does appreciate experience and smart heads up playing , but also believe he wants guys on the court that can produce , no matter what year they are in school. As he said the players end up determining their PT by what they do on the court and in practice . Although he did say last week, that got some laughs, that if Polee was not in the starting line up this year ,he knew Polee's mother would be after the coach .
|
|
|
Post by AztecBill on Oct 22, 2014 8:52:29 GMT -8
Just hope the players are not as concerned as some of you are with the S5 . Great to be a starter but as we should have learned from Polee last year total playing minutes and what you produce is more important , then who gets the bows as they are introduced for the starting line up and play until the first TV time out at 16:00 . We all know Fisher does appreciate experience and smart heads up playing , but also believe he wants guys on the court that can produce , no matter what year they are in school. As he said the players end up determining their PT by what they do on the court and in practice . Although he did say last week, that got some laughs, that if Polee was not in the starting line up this year ,he knew Polee's mother would be after the coach . I agree, who starts is not important. For home games, we should start the best dancers. Introductions ARE important.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 9:09:30 GMT -8
Just hope the players are not as concerned as some of you are with the S5 . Great to be a starter but as we should have learned from Polee last year total playing minutes and what you produce is more important , then who gets the bows as they are introduced for the starting line up and play until the first TV time out at 16:00 . We all know Fisher does appreciate experience and smart heads up playing , but also believe he wants guys on the court that can produce , no matter what year they are in school. As he said the players end up determining their PT by what they do on the court and in practice . Although he did say last week, that got some laughs, that if Polee was not in the starting line up this year ,he knew Polee's mother would be after the coach . This "who starts doesn't matter" mantra reminds me of the "in fish I trust" slogan. It is an oft repeated statement with little value. Over the last 5 or 6 years, Coach has not had a fluid lineup. We have not seen different players starting or getting heavy minutes because of matchups. Players have not been benched for performing poorly. He has kept his rotation to 7 to 8 players. The majority of the playing time has gone to the starters. You cannot directly contribute to a win when you are not on the floor. Of course, the starting five matters. Polee was playing well defensively and was providing the offensive production that the Aztecs desperately needed. He still didn't play regular minutes until the end of the season. Even then, he wasn't a team leader in minutes played.
|
|
|
Post by AztecBill on Oct 22, 2014 9:25:29 GMT -8
One thing to consider about Polee as a starter. Last year Polee came off the bench and provided instant energy on defense, rebounding, transition, and a legit 3 point shooter. But his energetic play led to a lot of fouls. He committed 5.4 fouls for every 40 MWC minutes. He can't do that getting starter minutes. Polee must become a little less energetic and more consistent. He has to play defense and not foul. Maybe the Aztecs ask Polee to play the same and use some of that depth.
|
|
|
Post by matteosandiego on Oct 22, 2014 9:26:06 GMT -8
Starting 5's are just silly. The players will earn their time and as its all about the pivotal minutes in crunch time anyways. Look at the Spurs. They bring in the best 6th man in the game with Ginobili. Lets not be one of those fan bases that is hung up on this, but rather the team as a whole. The people who play the most minutes for this team matter most, Obviously, those are the people playing defense, getting rebounds, scoring points, setting picks, getting steals, and blocking shots. To have a great scorer and distributor like Ginobili coming off of the bench and thereby play less minutes than the players on the starting unit, the starters must be able to score and create looks for each other. Having one of your two best players coming off the bench is a luxury that can rarely be afforded in college basketball. First, the player coming off the bench has to have players on the starting unit that duplicate his skill sets and do so at a similarly high level. Second, the starting unit must be able to score efficiently despite having one of the most talented players sitting on the bench. In baseball it is great to have a dominant closer. What do you do if your best relief pitcher is also your best starting pitcher and your best hitter? Do you still limit his role to crunch time? If you aren't at least keeping pace with the other team, there is no crunch time. Ummmm....huh? You lost me at "the people who play the most minutes for this team matter the most" (which was the beginning) You're proving my point man. Throw out all your analysis or thoughts on strategy, because it doesn't matter what we fans think or speculate when it comes to the starting five. The only product of all this guess work is a mindset of 'who's important' on this team. Which isn't good for anyone. The Ginobili example, was strictly to show the selflessness and humility it will take for our Aztecs to play at their highest level as a team, with this much talent on the roster.
|
|
|
Post by AztecBill on Oct 22, 2014 9:39:19 GMT -8
The people who play the most minutes for this team matter most, Obviously, those are the people playing defense, getting rebounds, scoring points, setting picks, getting steals, and blocking shots. To have a great scorer and distributor like Ginobili coming off of the bench and thereby play less minutes than the players on the starting unit, the starters must be able to score and create looks for each other. Having one of your two best players coming off the bench is a luxury that can rarely be afforded in college basketball. First, the player coming off the bench has to have players on the starting unit that duplicate his skill sets and do so at a similarly high level. Second, the starting unit must be able to score efficiently despite having one of the most talented players sitting on the bench. In baseball it is great to have a dominant closer. What do you do if your best relief pitcher is also your best starting pitcher and your best hitter? Do you still limit his role to crunch time? If you aren't at least keeping pace with the other team, there is no crunch time. Ummmm....huh? You lost me at "the people who play the most minutes for this team matter the most" (which was the beginning) You're proving my point man. Throw out all your analysis or thoughts on strategy, because it doesn't matter what we fans think or speculate when it comes to the starting five.The only product of all this guess work is a mindset of 'who's important' on this team. Which isn't good for anyone. The Ginobili example, was strictly to show the selflessness and humility it will take for our Aztecs to play at their highest level as a team, with this much talent on the roster. Nothing we do matters. All is vanity. The best players should play the most minutes. But their minutes should be limited, because a good tired player is not as good as an almost as good fresh player. It is also a long season and players feel the grind. Two years in a row New Mexico played Kendall Williams almost every minute of 3 consecutive MWC tournament games and both years he sucked a few days later in a losing NCAA tournament game. Related? I think so. We need to keep players fresh but we must win too. That's why they pay the coaches the big bucks.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 9:52:38 GMT -8
One thing to consider about Polee as a starter. Last year Polee came off the bench and provided instant energy on defense, rebounding, transition, and a legit 3 point shooter. But his energetic play led to a lot of fouls. He committed 5.4 fouls for every 40 MWC minutes. He can't do that getting starter minutes. Polee must become a little less energetic and more consistent. He has to play defense and not foul. Maybe the Aztecs ask Polee to play the same and use some of that depth. I saw this last year too. Polee did foul at a high rate. I don't blame him though. Those were his first significant minutes since his freshman year. He had to take advantage of every second on the court by going balls out on defense. He needed to earn more minutes and with Fisher the obvious way to do that is with defense. That kind of energy isn't sustainable when playing major minutes. It also isn't likely necessary to justify playing time. I expect to see more disciplined and controlled play with flashes of that intensity this year.
|
|
|
Post by matteosandiego on Oct 22, 2014 10:04:24 GMT -8
Ummmm....huh? You lost me at "the people who play the most minutes for this team matter the most" (which was the beginning) You're proving my point man. Throw out all your analysis or thoughts on strategy, because it doesn't matter what we fans think or speculate when it comes to the starting five. The only product of all this guess work is a mindset of 'who's important' on this team. Which isn't good for anyone.The Ginobili example, was strictly to show the selflessness and humility it will take for our Aztecs to play at their highest level as a team, with this much talent on the roster. Nothing we do matters. All is vanity. The best players should play the most minutes. But their minutes should be limited, because a good tired player is not as good as an almost as good fresh player. It is also a long season and players feel the grind. Two years in a row New Mexico played Kendall Williams almost every minute of 3 consecutive MWC tournament games and both years he sucked a few days later in a losing NCAA tournament game. Related? I think so. We need to keep players fresh but we must win too. That's why they pay the coaches the big bucks. Word. Guys need to stay fresh. Even though all of our speculation is in vain, Just hope we as the fanbase just continue to create a culture that roots for the team and not the individual. Hard to ask, but as SDSU grows with stature, got to keep the energy good in case maybe some of these kids dont pan out. You never know.
|
|
|
Post by sdcoug on Oct 22, 2014 10:09:52 GMT -8
Just hope the players are not as concerned as some of you are with the S5 . Great to be a starter but as we should have learned from Polee last year total playing minutes and what you produce is more important , then who gets the bows as they are introduced for the starting line up and play until the first TV time out at 16:00 . We all know Fisher does appreciate experience and smart heads up playing , but also believe he wants guys on the court that can produce , no matter what year they are in school. As he said the players end up determining their PT by what they do on the court and in practice . Although he did say last week, that got some laughs, that if Polee was not in the starting line up this year ,he knew Polee's mother would be after the coach . That all sounds great & all Kumbaya, and agree who finishes a game is as important as who starts. But it's not reality. These are 18-22 year old kids, all of whom have started since they were in kindergarten. OF COURSE it matters who starts, no matter what they may say in the press. If a Zabo, Polee, Chol or Quinn don't start they're going to be disappointed, BIG TIME. The FR are able to justify a little easier, but it still will sting. What matters is how you channel that disappointment. Some continue to fight to get into the S5; others settle into their roles & may not achieve their potential for the year, even if they play pretty well. Those in the S5 have a huge advantage, as they have the opportunity to get into their flow & the overall flow of the game from the get go. Those off the bench have to learn to adapt quickly. It works for some; it doesn't for others. As Bill points out, Polee was great energy off the bench but had he transferred that over to being a primary player he'd have found himself in foul trouble in many games. I guarantee you he wants to start this year & will be greatly disappointed if he doesn't. Nothing wrong with that. I'd be disappointed if a player wasn't pissed & greatly disappointed with NOT starting. True, any discussion we may have on these boards is meaningless in the whole scope of things. Just fun. But who starts DEFINITELY will impact the season, as finding the combination which plays best in that role will dictate the outcome of several games. The most important "minutes" stat is which 5 play the most time together on the floor. That's typically the S5.
|
|
|
Post by standiego on Oct 22, 2014 12:01:44 GMT -8
Fisher is going to start whom ever he thinks deserves to start , for what ever reasons he has . The team could be 13 deep and only 5 can start and play at a time. So the players and the coaches will need to adjust to what is most important to them, starting , PT or My point was , what is more important to me is who is there and delivers when they are in there, especially when the game is on the line and the W. I hope all the guys buy in if they are starters or reserves but only time will tell. I have my opinion as does every one else. But there are only 5 guys on the court at a time. Many of us would speculate or concur on at least 3 or 4 of the starters. (Spencer , Shepard , Polee , and a guess Fisher also starts JJ -OB as the debates begin. and the 5th starter) . Is it the same at Kentucky , and other teams that are deep ? Fisher did toss out there, that the starting 5 could be more fluid this year then it has been in the past few years . Same thing with the reserves in the rotation. Yes it is important to be a starter and every one of these 13 guys was a starter / star in HS and strives for that in college . Some guys have a realistic outlook on starting and its true importance. How they deal with starting or coming off the bench , could be very interesting for the players and the coaches. New situations for the players and the coaches , not that easy for both groups. Communication could be very important .make the game plan for PT perfectly clear to all the guys .and keep doing it all year.. Keeping 13 guys happy and motivated is important. Knowing and understanding each individual player. A very important part of being a good coaching staff . Especially for the guys who are not starting and there are only 5 starters . The team is 13 deep , as noted Fisher expects to play more guys to start the season ,will he continue to do it as the season continues , depends on the players production but will he be able to handle getting the most out of that many guys . This is something new for the staff . Polee could handle coming off the bench last year , he also started out the season as a reserve behind others ,but worked his way later in the season, into THE 6th man for the Aztecs and the MW , and ended up being one of the top players on the Aztecs . IMO he deserves to start . Also as noted in the spring by Zeigler , and others here is the Q Polee's endurance and production .?
|
|
|
Post by AztecBill on Oct 22, 2014 12:40:05 GMT -8
Just hope the players are not as concerned as some of you are with the S5 . Great to be a starter but as we should have learned from Polee last year total playing minutes and what you produce is more important , then who gets the bows as they are introduced for the starting line up and play until the first TV time out at 16:00 . We all know Fisher does appreciate experience and smart heads up playing , but also believe he wants guys on the court that can produce , no matter what year they are in school. As he said the players end up determining their PT by what they do on the court and in practice . Although he did say last week, that got some laughs, that if Polee was not in the starting line up this year ,he knew Polee's mother would be after the coach . That all sounds great & all Kumbaya, and agree who finishes a game is as important as who starts. But it's not reality. These are 18-22 year old kids, all of whom have started since they were in kindergarten. OF COURSE it matters who starts, no matter what they may say in the press. If a Zabo, Polee, Chol or Quinn don't start they're going to be disappointed, BIG TIME. The FR are able to justify a little easier, but it still will sting. What matters is how you channel that disappointment. Some continue to fight to get into the S5; others settle into their roles & may not achieve their potential for the year, even if they play pretty well. Those in the S5 have a huge advantage, as they have the opportunity to get into their flow & the overall flow of the game from the get go. Those off the bench have to learn to adapt quickly. It works for some; it doesn't for others. As Bill points out, Polee was great energy off the bench but had he transferred that over to being a primary player he'd have found himself in foul trouble in many games. I guarantee you he wants to start this year & will be greatly disappointed if he doesn't. Nothing wrong with that. I'd be disappointed if a player wasn't pissed & greatly disappointed with NOT starting. True, any discussion we may have on these boards is meaningless in the whole scope of things. Just fun. But who starts DEFINITELY will impact the season, as finding the combination which plays best in that role will dictate the outcome of several games. The most important "minutes" stat is which 5 play the most time together on the floor. That's typically the S5. The whole basketball season is meaningless in the whole scope of things. All is vanity. Why do some (not who I am responding to) want to single out our speculation as being meaningless and not the rest of life? Some people dedicate their whole life to moving little statues around a big square trying to get one of the statues in particular when at any point he could just reach out and grab the thing. Then when they are ready to get that statue they stop and never get it. Other people take very seriously watching a bunch of men trying to go around in circles with machines they built to do that.
|
|
|
Post by bearfoot on Oct 22, 2014 12:40:17 GMT -8
Fisher is going to start whom ever he thinks deserves to start , for what ever reasons he has . The team could be 13 deep and only 5 can start and play at a time. So the players and the coaches will need to adjust to what is most important to them, starting , PT or My point was , what is more important to me is who is there and delivers when they are in there, especially when the game is on the line and the W. I hope all the guys buy in if they are starters or reserves but only time will tell. I have my opinion as does every one else. But there are only 5 guys on the court at a time. Many of us would speculate or concur on at least 3 or 4 of the starters. (Spencer , Shepard , Polee , and a guess Fisher also starts JJ -OB as the debates begin. and the 5th starter) . Is it the same at Kentucky , and other teams that are deep ? Fisher did toss out there, that the starting 5 could be more fluid this year then it has been in the past few years . Same thing with the reserves in the rotation. Yes it is important to be a starter and every one of these 13 guys was a starter / star in HS and strives for that in college . Some guys have a realistic outlook on starting and its true importance. How they deal with starting or coming off the bench , could be very interesting for the players and the coaches. New situations for the players and the coaches , not that easy for both groups. Communication could be very important .make the game plan for PT perfectly clear to all the guys .and keep doing it all year.. Keeping 13 guys happy and motivated is important. Knowing and understanding each individual player. A very important part of being a good coaching staff . Especially for the guys who are not starting and there are only 5 starters . The team is 13 deep , as noted Fisher expects to play more guys to start the season ,will he continue to do it as the season continues , depends on the players production but will he be able to handle getting the most out of that many guys . This is something new for the staff . Polee could handle coming off the bench last year , he also started out the season as a reserve behind others ,but worked his way later in the season, into THE 6th man for the Aztecs and the MW , and ended up being one of the top players on the Aztecs . IMO he deserves to start . Also as noted in the spring by Zeigler , and others here is the Q Polee's endurance and production .? Rather than arguing about who will start, or even who will play in crunch time, is which players's loss will hurt our team the most? In other words, whose injury, or whatever, will hurt the team the most. I think JJ. he is an old timer, who has been through it all. Not the best player, but the most experienced.
|
|
|
Post by mnolt08 on Oct 22, 2014 12:49:23 GMT -8
O'Brian, Sheppard, Etc... We could almost have a starting 5 of misspelled names who would be coached by Steve Fischer.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 13:27:24 GMT -8
Fisher is going to start whom ever he thinks deserves to start , for what ever reasons he has . The team could be 13 deep and only 5 can start and play at a time. So the players and the coaches will need to adjust to what is most important to them, starting , PT or My point was , what is more important to me is who is there and delivers when they are in there, especially when the game is on the line and the W. I hope all the guys buy in if they are starters or reserves but only time will tell. I have my opinion as does every one else. But there are only 5 guys on the court at a time. Many of us would speculate or concur on at least 3 or 4 of the starters. (Spencer , Shepard , Polee , and a guess Fisher also starts JJ -OB as the debates begin. and the 5th starter) . Is it the same at Kentucky , and other teams that are deep ? Fisher did toss out there, that the starting 5 could be more fluid this year then it has been in the past few years . Same thing with the reserves in the rotation. Yes it is important to be a starter and every one of these 13 guys was a starter / star in HS and strives for that in college . Some guys have a realistic outlook on starting and its true importance. How they deal with starting or coming off the bench , could be very interesting for the players and the coaches. New situations for the players and the coaches , not that easy for both groups. Communication could be very important .make the game plan for PT perfectly clear to all the guys .and keep doing it all year.. Keeping 13 guys happy and motivated is important. Knowing and understanding each individual player. A very important part of being a good coaching staff . Especially for the guys who are not starting and there are only 5 starters . The team is 13 deep , as noted Fisher expects to play more guys to start the season ,will he continue to do it as the season continues , depends on the players production but will he be able to handle getting the most out of that many guys . This is something new for the staff . Polee could handle coming off the bench last year , he also started out the season as a reserve behind others ,but worked his way later in the season, into THE 6th man for the Aztecs and the MW , and ended up being one of the top players on the Aztecs . IMO he deserves to start . Also as noted in the spring by Zeigler , and others here is the Q Polee's endurance and production .? Rather than arguing about who will start, or even who will play in crunch time, is which players's loss will hurt our team the most? In other words, whose injury, or whatever, will hurt the team the most. I think JJ. he is an old timer, who has been through it all. Not the best player, but the most experienced. He was hurt last year and the Aztecs advanced to the sweet sixteen. Losing a player whose contributions would be difficult or impossible to replace would be at the top of the list. Our teams have traditionally struggled to shoot. We have also lacked depth at the 4/5 positions. Therefore, Skylar Spencer and Dwayne Polee would be the hardest to replace. As the season unfolds, my opinion could change.
|
|
|
Post by bearfoot on Oct 22, 2014 13:46:53 GMT -8
Rather than arguing about who will start, or even who will play in crunch time, is which players's loss will hurt our team the most? In other words, whose injury, or whatever, will hurt the team the most. I think JJ. he is an old timer, who has been through it all. Not the best player, but the most experienced. He was hurt last year and the Aztecs advanced to the sweet sixteen. Losing a player whose contributions would be difficult or impossible to replace would be at the top of the list. Our teams have traditionally struggled to shoot. We have also lacked depth at the 4/5 positions. Therefore, Skylar Spencer and Dwayne Polee would be the hardest to replace. As the season unfolds, my opinion could change. For a moment, I forgot you were here. By the time our guys really began to make their charge to the S 16, JJ was recovered from his broken hand. From reports, our guys will not be lacking in the shooting department this season. Not exactly the same but Sky = Angelo DP = M Pope Of course loosing any will be a bother.
|
|
|
Post by waxxon on Oct 22, 2014 14:10:13 GMT -8
my blind guess
Kell Polee Shepard O'Brien Spencer
|
|
|
Post by onions on Oct 22, 2014 14:58:02 GMT -8
PF/Center: Spencer Forward: O'Brien Forward: Shepard Forward: Polee These 4 seem to be a lock for starting spots and 25+ min per game. The real question is who plays PG and who emerges as the top guards off the bench? I would love to see both Zabo and Williams jump ahead of Quinn at guard ... and I think Allen and Shrigley get more minutes than Kell.
|
|
|
Post by standiego on Oct 22, 2014 17:27:12 GMT -8
As predicted in May . The battle for PG will probably go through the fall practice and none of us know if it will be one guy or more ? As of today most of us would guess the same three starters or four starters Spencer , Shepard, Polee , and JJ-O . Then there will be a lot of combinations of guys battling for PT . Who steps up could change change daily then they have the Closed Door Scrimmage with Stanford , not open to the public , real competition and things start to get interesting.as the OOC begins Fisher has said he is going to be playing "numerous " guys . 200 minutes to be divided up as the coaches see fit .
|
|
|
Post by Fisher Fanatic on Oct 22, 2014 19:29:31 GMT -8
Is it that hard to spell their names right??!
|
|