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Post by AztecWilliam on May 1, 2014 23:12:04 GMT -8
This was obvious from the start. I still can't figure out why the administration did not built into ObamaCare some way of prohibiting the concierge type of practice. I suppose the more radical types probably would be in favor of it. The long and the short of it is that in the future only the wealthy will get really good treatment. Come on, you Obama fans. Please, pretty please, tell me where I am wrong. I hope to god that I am, since if I am correct, lots of less well-off Americans are going to die before their time as a result of the rationing that is, and always was, inevitable under ObamaCare. Take a close look at this piece and check out the comments, as well. (This URL may take a couple of extra seconds. so be patient.) tinyurl.com/kztp3x3AzWm
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Post by azteccc on May 2, 2014 3:27:05 GMT -8
Any time a Republican starts a thread with "The coming..." I chuckle a bit.
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on May 2, 2014 8:43:26 GMT -8
And you think we don't have multiple tiers now?
Those with insurance vs. those without.
Those with good insurance vs. those with crappy insurance.
Those with insurance that actually pay their claims than those that don't.
etc.
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Post by aztecwin on May 2, 2014 10:50:38 GMT -8
With more and more Doctors dropping out of Medicare and the reimbursement rates going in the toilet, we have that two tiered system now. Do you have ObamaKare? If you answer yes, you have that crappy end of the two tiered system.
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on May 2, 2014 15:25:26 GMT -8
With more and more Doctors dropping out of Medicare and the reimbursement rates going in the toilet, we have that two tiered system now. Do you have ObamaKare? If you answer yes, you have that crappy end of the two tiered system. I agree that Medicare reimbursement rates to the physicians need to go up. Then... Transition everyone to a single payer Medicare system.
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Post by AztecWilliam on May 2, 2014 17:05:53 GMT -8
I am totally against a single-payer system. That will just make the rationing that is inevitable in ObamaCare even worse. Anyone paying attention will know that the Exchange policies are both expensive and worse in terms of providers than in the old system. And the old system, to be sure, was in need of reform. Oh, yes. Let's not forget that the out of pocket expense required by the ObamaCare policies are very, very high.
Yes, to an extent there already is a two-tier system, but ObamaCare will make that even more evident. The rich will not have to wait 6 or 8 weeks to be able to see a doctor they have never heard of and who practices two or three hours sway.
I guess it would by pointless to remind everyone that Barrack Obama promised that families could keep their plan and their doctor and would save $2500 in the bargain. That was either an outright lie, or BHO was delusional when he said it. Wait, there is another explanation. He had no reason whatsoever to believe that what he was promising was inaccurate but just didn't care.
AzWm
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Post by azteccc on May 2, 2014 19:34:31 GMT -8
The rich will not have wait 6 or 8 weeks to be able to see a doctor they never hear of and who practices two or three hours sway. In a society with a more-or-less free economy, most people will do reasonably well unless they make catastrophic life decisions. Such as becoming dependent on drugs or being convicted of serious crimes. So what's the problem? Just don't become dependent on drugs or get convicted of a serious crime, and you'll be in Tier 1.
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Post by aztec70 on May 2, 2014 20:07:56 GMT -8
I am totally against a single-payer system. That will just make the rationing that is inevitable in ObamaCare even worse. Anyone paying attention will know that the Exchange policies are both expensive and worse in terms of providers than in the old system. And the old system, to be sure, was in need of reform. Oh, yes. Let's not forget that the out of pocket expense required by the ObamaCare policies are very, very high. Yes, to an extent there already is a two-tier system, but ObamaCare will make that even more evident. The rich will not have wait 6 or 8 weeks to be able to see a doctor they never hear of and who practices two or three hours sway. I guess it would by pointless to remind everyone that Barrack Obama promised that families could keep their plan and their doctor and would save $2500 in the bargain. That was either an outright lie, or BHO was delusional when he said it. Wait, there is another explanation. He had no reason whatsoever that what he was promising was inaccurate but just didn't care. AzWm We as a nation spend more money on healthcare, measured by spending per head, and as percent of GDP than any other country. Yet we have worse health outcomes than most, if not all, other first world countrys. How do you explain that?
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Post by davdesid on May 3, 2014 14:56:58 GMT -8
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Post by aztec70 on May 3, 2014 15:13:25 GMT -8
I disagree. Being an obese country, that is accident prone, and shoots each other too much, is hardly an explanation of infant mortality. Unless you sit on your baby, drop them on their heads, or shoot them while cleaning your weapon. Feel free to champion that behavior if you wish.
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Post by davdesid on May 3, 2014 15:23:38 GMT -8
I disagree. Being an obese country, that is accident prone, and shoots each other too much, is hardly an explanation of infant mortality. Unless you sit on your baby, drop them on their heads, or shoot them while cleaning your weapon. Feel free to champion that behavior if you wish. Didja miss this part... "Direct measures of the effectiveness of medical care show that five-year relative survival rates for individuals diagnosed with various types of cancer are higher in the United States than in Canada, as are infant survival rates of low-birthweight babies."
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Post by aztec70 on May 3, 2014 16:01:35 GMT -8
Yep, I prefer the standards that is used by almost everyone, except right wing apologists.
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Post by davdesid on May 4, 2014 12:36:08 GMT -8
Yep, I prefer the standards that is used by almost everyone, except right wing apologists. I prefer credible sources that debunk left-wing attempts at statistical legerdemain.
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Post by aztec70 on May 4, 2014 12:46:46 GMT -8
Yep, I prefer the standards that is used by almost everyone, except right wing apologists. I prefer credible sources that debunk left-wing attempts at statistical legerdemain. Says the right wing apologist.
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Post by aztecwin on May 4, 2014 13:26:47 GMT -8
With more and more Doctors dropping out of Medicare and the reimbursement rates going in the toilet, we have that two tiered system now. Do you have ObamaKare? If you answer yes, you have that crappy end of the two tiered system. I agree that Medicare reimbursement rates to the physicians need to go up. Then... Transition everyone to a single payer Medicare system. I can see how a single payer system could work but it would not be anything like what I expect you envision. Could be wrong, I don't remember if you ever fleshed your idea out.
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Post by aztecwin on May 4, 2014 13:31:22 GMT -8
I am totally against a single-payer system. That will just make the rationing that is inevitable in ObamaCare even worse. Anyone paying attention will know that the Exchange policies are both expensive and worse in terms of providers than in the old system. And the old system, to be sure, was in need of reform. Oh, yes. Let's not forget that the out of pocket expense required by the ObamaCare policies are very, very high. Yes, to an extent there already is a two-tier system, but ObamaCare will make that even more evident. The rich will not have to wait 6 or 8 weeks to be able to see a doctor they have never heard of and who practices two or three hours sway. I guess it would by pointless to remind everyone that Barrack Obama promised that families could keep their plan and their doctor and would save $2500 in the bargain. That was either an outright lie, or BHO was delusional when he said it. Wait, there is another explanation. He had no reason whatsoever to believe that what he was promising was inaccurate but just didn't care. AzWm I can go for single payer, but it would be so restrictive that it would never get put in place. The rest of your post is pretty near right on. I will also say that having Doctors having the option of caring for an obamakare patient and one willing to pay to jump the line will just cause more problems to obamakare and make waits and rationing worse.
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Post by davdesid on May 4, 2014 14:03:35 GMT -8
I prefer credible sources that debunk left-wing attempts at statistical legerdemain. Says the right wing apologist. So says the left wing spin doctor.... LOL
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on May 5, 2014 21:01:23 GMT -8
I agree that Medicare reimbursement rates to the physicians need to go up. Then... Transition everyone to a single payer Medicare system. I can see how a single payer system could work but it would not be anything like what I expect you envision. Could be wrong, I don't remember if you ever fleshed your idea out. The provider model is in place. Medicare. Hospitals and drug companies are making a ton of money on Medicare. The individual physician is the one who is taking it in the shorts. But that is also true in the current insurance run system we currently have.
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Post by aztecwin on May 6, 2014 11:33:49 GMT -8
I can see how a single payer system could work but it would not be anything like what I expect you envision. Could be wrong, I don't remember if you ever fleshed your idea out. The provider model is in place. Medicare. Hospitals and drug companies are making a ton of money on Medicare. The individual physician is the one who is taking it in the shorts. But that is also true in the current insurance run system we currently have. Close to agreeing, but not quite. We would have to wring fraud out of the system and refine eligibility.
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on May 7, 2014 9:36:31 GMT -8
The provider model is in place. Medicare. Hospitals and drug companies are making a ton of money on Medicare. The individual physician is the one who is taking it in the shorts. But that is also true in the current insurance run system we currently have. Close to agreeing, but not quite. We would have to wring fraud out of the system and refine eligibility. There is fraud in the current system as well but I can't disagree with you there. We should hire many more investigators in this area. I'm not sure what you mean by 'refine eligibility' though. EVERYONE here legally should be eligible.
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