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Post by AztecBill on Jun 11, 2012 9:03:44 GMT -8
Will Venable is having a good year. Overall he is hitting: .277 .346 .480 .825 That is pretty good. But on the road is where he has really shined. Below is his road stats followed by his MLB rating on road offense: Stat | Number | MLB Ranking | NL Ranking | BA | .357 | 7 | 5 | OBP | .419 | 11 | 7 | SLG | .679 | 2 | 1 | OPS | 1.098 | 2 | 1 |
His SLG on the road is .006 behind Josh Hamilton of the Texas Rangers. Does that make anyone wonder what Will would be hitting if he played his home games at Texas?
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Post by AztecBill on Jun 13, 2012 8:15:47 GMT -8
Will Venable is having a good year. Overall he is hitting: .277 .346 .480 .825 That is pretty good. But on the road is where he has really shined. Below is his road stats followed by his MLB rating on road offense: Stat | Number | MLB Ranking | NL Ranking | BA | .357 | 7 | 5 | OBP | .419 | 11 | 7 | SLG | .679 | 2 | 1 | OPS | 1.098 | 2 | 1 |
His SLG on the road is .006 behind Josh Hamilton of the Texas Rangers. Does that make anyone wonder what Will would be hitting if he played his home games at Texas? I think it is time to stop batting Venable leadoff. Leadoff home runs are nice but home runs (and doubles too) real value is clearing the bases.
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Post by aztecron on Jun 13, 2012 8:48:38 GMT -8
Will Venable is having a good year. Overall he is hitting: .277 .346 .480 .825 That is pretty good. But on the road is where he has really shined. Below is his road stats followed by his MLB rating on road offense: Stat | Number | MLB Ranking | NL Ranking | BA | .357 | 7 | 5 | OBP | .419 | 11 | 7 | SLG | .679 | 2 | 1 | OPS | 1.098 | 2 | 1 |
His SLG on the road is .006 behind Josh Hamilton of the Texas Rangers. Does that make anyone wonder what Will would be hitting if he played his home games at Texas? You sure know how to "reach" in your comparisons. To speak Venable and Hamilton in the same breath is ridiculous. For your comparison did you remove Hamilton's numbers from Safeco, Comerica Park, Oakland Coliseum, Target Field in Minnesota to come up with the basis of your post? You take out the effect of Petco on Venable by showing "road" numbers in comparison to Hamilton, did you in turn take out the above mentioned large stadiums out of Hamilton's? I'd say Hamilton's SLG. percentage in that case would grossly out produce Venable's. You can make stats say whatever position you want to posit. Would you take Hamilton or Venable right now, today? If you're honest, it's a no brainer, and not even close. Venable is hitting good at this point in the season, I'm not taking anything away from him as his growth this year. But, hold off on the comparison's to one of baseball's superstars. It ain't holding water in this case.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2012 14:35:41 GMT -8
You can make stats say whatever position you want to posit. Would you take Hamilton or Venable right now, today? If you're honest, it's a no brainer, and not even close. Venable is hitting good at this point in the season, I'm not taking anything away from him as his growth this year. But, hold off on the comparison's to one of baseball's superstars. It ain't holding water in this case. Bill could (and should, if he agreed with their policies which I don't believe he does) work for the Obama administration. Bill has a way of making chicken sh*t into chicken salad. The same could be said for any presidential administration of all time.
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Post by AztecBill on Jun 14, 2012 8:01:16 GMT -8
Will Venable is having a good year. Overall he is hitting: .277 .346 .480 .825 That is pretty good. But on the road is where he has really shined. Below is his road stats followed by his MLB rating on road offense: Stat | Number | MLB Ranking | NL Ranking | BA | .357 | 7 | 5 | OBP | .419 | 11 | 7 | SLG | .679 | 2 | 1 | OPS | 1.098 | 2 | 1 |
His SLG on the road is .006 behind Josh Hamilton of the Texas Rangers. Does that make anyone wonder what Will would be hitting if he played his home games at Texas? You sure know how to "reach" in your comparisons. To speak Venable and Hamilton in the same breath is ridiculous. For your comparison did you remove Hamilton's numbers from Safeco, Comerica Park, Oakland Coliseum, Target Field in Minnesota to come up with the basis of your post? You take out the effect of Petco on Venable by showing "road" numbers in comparison to Hamilton, did you in turn take out the above mentioned large stadiums out of Hamilton's? I'd say Hamilton's SLG. percentage in that case would grossly out produce Venable's. You can make stats say whatever position you want to posit. Would you take Hamilton or Venable right now, today? If you're honest, it's a no brainer, and not even close. Venable is hitting good at this point in the season, I'm not taking anything away from him as his growth this year. But, hold off on the comparison's to one of baseball's superstars. It ain't holding water in this case. You are reading way too much into a simple statement. It was just another way to demonstrate the year Venable is having, so far. Hamilton is greatly assisted in his reputation by playing for Texas. That park is a hitters haven. His SLG at home over the past 3 years is .088 points higher. Home parks skewing data makes true ratings more difficult. He is a very good hitter but not quite as good as people generally think. Although this year is the exception - he is rocking this year. He has averaged less than 10 HR per year on the road and this year already has 12. Career HR (2007-2011)72 Home 46 Road
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Post by AztecBill on Jun 14, 2012 8:02:36 GMT -8
You can make stats say whatever position you want to posit. Would you take Hamilton or Venable right now, today? If you're honest, it's a no brainer, and not even close. Venable is hitting good at this point in the season, I'm not taking anything away from him as his growth this year. But, hold off on the comparison's to one of baseball's superstars. It ain't holding water in this case. Bill could (and should, if he agreed with their policies which I don't believe he does) work for the Obama administration. Bill has a way of making chicken sh*t into chicken salad. That wouldn't work - I rely too much on truth in my spin.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2012 9:22:51 GMT -8
You sure know how to "reach" in your comparisons. To speak Venable and Hamilton in the same breath is ridiculous. For your comparison did you remove Hamilton's numbers from Safeco, Comerica Park, Oakland Coliseum, Target Field in Minnesota to come up with the basis of your post? You take out the effect of Petco on Venable by showing "road" numbers in comparison to Hamilton, did you in turn take out the above mentioned large stadiums out of Hamilton's? I'd say Hamilton's SLG. percentage in that case would grossly out produce Venable's. You can make stats say whatever position you want to posit. Would you take Hamilton or Venable right now, today? If you're honest, it's a no brainer, and not even close. Venable is hitting good at this point in the season, I'm not taking anything away from him as his growth this year. But, hold off on the comparison's to one of baseball's superstars. It ain't holding water in this case. You are reading way too much into a simple statement. It was just another way to demonstrate the year Venable is having, so far. Hamilton is greatly assisted in his reputation by playing for Texas. That park is a hitters haven. His SLG at home over the past 3 years is .088 points higher. Home parks skewing data makes true ratings more difficult. He is a very good hitter but not quite as good as people generally think. Although this year is the exception - he is rocking this year. He has averaged less than 10 HR per year on the road and this year already has 12. Career HR (2007-2011)72 Home 46 Road No, he IS as good as we think.
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Post by AztecBill on Jun 14, 2012 14:25:31 GMT -8
You are reading way too much into a simple statement. It was just another way to demonstrate the year Venable is having, so far. Hamilton is greatly assisted in his reputation by playing for Texas. That park is a hitters haven. His SLG at home over the past 3 years is .088 points higher. Home parks skewing data makes true ratings more difficult. He is a very good hitter but not quite as good as people generally think. Although this year is the exception - he is rocking this year. He has averaged less than 10 HR per year on the road and this year already has 12. Career HR (2007-2011)72 Home 46 Road No, he IS as good as we think. This year he is. But this is the first year he has been the player you think he is on the road. That is because who you think he is, is effected by internalizing his home numbers as part of his overall rating. His ball park skews the truth. Hamilton's SLG ranking on the road (min 200 AB)1st 2012 26th 2011 25th 2010 66th 2009 91st 2008 He has been below the elite sluggers in baseball before this season. Both Will Venable and Chase Headley have higher SLG%, so far, on the road this year, than Hamilton ever had. I bet you were one of those folks who thought the Rockies had the 5 best hitters in baseball, back in the day.
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Post by 1611Luginbill on Jun 14, 2012 15:02:23 GMT -8
If Will Venable played much much much much much better in every game, he would be as good as Josh Hamilton.
BOOM.
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Post by AztecBill on Jun 14, 2012 16:03:49 GMT -8
If Will Venable played much much much much much better in every game, he would be as good as Josh Hamilton. BOOM. I think only 3 "much"s are needed there. 5 is too many. And of course you totally miss the point.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2012 16:55:30 GMT -8
No, he IS as good as we think. This year he is. But this is the first year he has been the player you think he is on the road. That is because who you think he is, is effected by internalizing his home numbers as part of his overall rating. His ball park skews the truth. Hamilton's SLG ranking on the road (min 200 AB)1st 2012 26th 2011 25th 2010 66th 2009 91st 2008 He has been below the elite sluggers in baseball before this season. Both Will Venable and Chase Headley have higher SLG%, so far, on the road this year, than Hamilton ever had. I bet you were one of those folks who thought the Rockies had the 5 best hitters in baseball, back in the day. LOL. No, the Indians had the best lineup back then of course. ;D Lofton, Baerga, Belle, Ramirez, Thomas, Alomar, Jr....
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Post by 1611Luginbill on Jun 15, 2012 9:24:38 GMT -8
I think only 3 "much"s are needed there. 5 is too many. And of course you totally miss the point. Actually, 5 is just right because Hamilton's VORP is 5x higher than Venable's. Who gives a $#!+ what Venable does on the road when compared to Hamilton? If the roles were reversed, Venable would still suck on the Rangers and Hamilton would still be mashing with the Padres. People that blame a ballpark for players playing like $#!+ are the ones who are missing the point entirely.
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Post by AztecBill on Jun 15, 2012 10:45:17 GMT -8
I think only 3 "much"s are needed there. 5 is too many. And of course you totally miss the point. Actually, 5 is just right because Hamilton's VORP is 5x higher than Venable's. Who gives a $#!+ what Venable does on the road when compared to Hamilton? If the roles were reversed, Venable would still suck on the Rangers and Hamilton would still be mashing with the Padres. People that blame a ballpark for players playing like $#!+ are the ones who are missing the point entirely. Over the past 3 years Hamilton has a .501 SLG on the road. Over the past 3 years Hamilton has a .589 SLG at home. Simply question that I think you will avoid. What do you think Hamilton's SLG would be at home, if he played in Petco Park instead of the Rangers home park? For reference: AGon's road SLG in the last 3 years he played with the Padres .578, .643, .578. AGon's home SLG in the last 3 years he played with the Padres .433, .446, .438
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Post by AztecBill on Jun 19, 2012 10:41:50 GMT -8
Will Venable is having a good year. Overall he is hitting: .277 .346 .480 .825 That is pretty good. But on the road is where he has really shined. Below is his road stats followed by his MLB rating on road offense: Stat | Number | MLB Ranking | NL Ranking | BA | .357 | 7 | 5 | OBP | .419 | 11 | 7 | SLG | .679 | 2 | 1 | OPS | 1.098 | 2 | 1 |
His SLG on the road is .006 behind Josh Hamilton of the Texas Rangers. Does that make anyone wonder what Will would be hitting if he played his home games at Texas? You sure know how to "reach" in your comparisons. To speak Venable and Hamilton in the same breath is ridiculous. For your comparison did you remove Hamilton's numbers from Safeco, Comerica Park, Oakland Coliseum, Target Field in Minnesota to come up with the basis of your post? You take out the effect of Petco on Venable by showing "road" numbers in comparison to Hamilton, did you in turn take out the above mentioned large stadiums out of Hamilton's? I'd say Hamilton's SLG. percentage in that case would grossly out produce Venable's. You can make stats say whatever position you want to posit. Would you take Hamilton or Venable right now, today? If you're honest, it's a no brainer, and not even close. Venable is hitting good at this point in the season, I'm not taking anything away from him as his growth this year. But, hold off on the comparison's to one of baseball's superstars. It ain't holding water in this case. Teams Home versus Road ERAs. Team HomeERA RoadERA DifferenceOakland 3.04 4.33 1.29Seattle 3.39 4.73 1.34San Fran 2.62 4.06 1.44Dodgers 2.46 3.93 1.47So the Giants and Dodgers both have better home field run suppression (vis a vis the road) than either Seattle or Oakland. Average NL home field advantage in ERA 0.34 Average AL home field advantage in ERA 0.22 Average AL home field advantage in ERA 0.27 (without Texas) Average NL home field advantage in ERA 0.25 (without Padres) So it all evens out because each team plays a variety of teams on the road. But home games are wildly skewed because they are always played in the same park.
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Post by aztecron on Jun 20, 2012 15:43:48 GMT -8
Sometimes you just have to watch the game and answer your questions with what you see on the field. Again, you can make your numbers state whatever position you want to state. Some of your comparisons are just down right gibberish. Either that, or you just like to run numbers and debate even when you're wrong.
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Post by AztecBill on Jun 20, 2012 16:20:35 GMT -8
Sometimes you just have to watch the game and answer your questions with what you see on the field. Again, you can make your numbers state whatever position you want to state. Some of your comparisons are just down right gibberish. Either that, or you just like to run numbers and debate even when you're wrong. I will ask you. Over the past 3 years Hamilton has a .501 SLG on the road. Over the past 3 years Hamilton has a .589 SLG at home. Simply question that I think you will avoid. What do you think Hamilton's SLG would be at home, if he played in Petco Park instead of the Rangers home park? Also: Last year Josh Hamilton hit .298 but only .248 with RISP. Do you think he is not a "clutch" hitter?
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Post by AztecBill on Jun 20, 2012 16:51:57 GMT -8
I think only 3 "much"s are needed there. 5 is too many. And of course you totally miss the point. Actually, 5 is just right because Hamilton's VORP is 5x higher than Venable's. Who gives a $#!+ what Venable does on the road when compared to Hamilton? If the roles were reversed, Venable would still suck on the Rangers and Hamilton would still be mashing with the Padres. People that blame a ballpark for players playing like $#!+ are the ones who are missing the point entirely. It makes one wonder why world records in outdoor 100 dash are disqualified if the wind is blowing at their backs to strongly. Runners running well shouldn't be discounted because of a little wind.
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Post by 1611Luginbill on Jun 21, 2012 8:02:40 GMT -8
It makes one wonder why world records in outdoor 100 dash are disqualified if the wind is blowing at their backs to strongly. Runners running well shouldn't be discounted because of a little wind. The WR may not be recognized but the results of the heat at that particular meet still stand and in our case, it would still mean that Venable finshes near last in the heat while Hamilton would finish on one of the top 2 steps of the podium. Yawn. Should have gone with a Grave Digger v Bigfoot metaphor.
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Post by AztecBill on Jun 21, 2012 8:17:19 GMT -8
It makes one wonder why world records in outdoor 100 dash are disqualified if the wind is blowing at their backs to strongly. Runners running well shouldn't be discounted because of a little wind. The WR may not be recognized but the results of the heat at that particular meet still stand and in our case, it would still mean that Venable finshes near last in the heat while Hamilton would finish on one of the top 2 steps of the podium. Yawn. Should have gone with a Grave Digger v Bigfoot metaphor. So you admit that Venable is running against the wind and Hamilton is running with the wind? When Hamilton is running with no wind (road games) his career at Venables age is similar. Playing in a hitters park makes a huge difference. But Hamilton at 30 and especially 31 has really picked up his road numbers. Venable at 28 has also done so, so far.
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Post by AztecBill on Jun 21, 2012 8:28:41 GMT -8
Venable road 2012: .324 .383 .590 .973 Headley Road 2012: .272 .382 .474 .856
2011 Ranger's advantage at home The Rangers had an 18.8% better BA at home than on the road. The Rangers had an 12.8% better OBP at home than on the road. The Rangers had an 33.0% better SLG at home than on the road. The Rangers had an 23.7% better OPS at home than on the road.
If you take the average difference home and road of Texas players (2011) and apply those home numbers to the players stats above you get the following projected numbers for the two players (to this point in the season), if they had been playing at the Texas home park.
Venable .385 .432 .785 1.217 Headley .323 .431 .630 1.061
It turns Headley into a major star and, this year, so far, makes Venable a Josh Hamilton.
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