|
Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 23, 2010 16:25:13 GMT -8
Well, wrt to the health care takeover, referring to what are going to be basically treated as chattel as "customers" is a bit of a non sequitur, too. Especially since the philosopher kings who will run it are exempt. tinyurl.com/388z4cdThe direction that heath care is headed can do nothing but turn out poorly. It will have lots of willing and right minded folks led by a bunch of idiots. It will be like I describe the Postal Service. Still a non sequitur because it has nothing at all to do with management v. customer service. And given that health care hasn't come on line, all you're doing is speculating based upon ideology. =Bob
|
|
|
Post by davdesid on Jul 24, 2010 12:53:11 GMT -8
The direction that heath care is headed can do nothing but turn out poorly. It will have lots of willing and right minded folks led by a bunch of idiots. It will be like I describe the Postal Service. Still a non sequitur because it has nothing at all to do with management v. customer service. And given that health care hasn't come on line, all you're doing is speculating based upon ideology. =Bob No, speculation based on even your experience. And you should know. Entrenched gummint bureaucrats are mostly a bunch of idiots. Doesn't matter which gummint agency. (Oh, until somebody decided to make you one, that is. But then, even a blind squirrel.....)
|
|
|
Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 24, 2010 15:12:15 GMT -8
Still a non sequitur because it has nothing at all to do with management v. customer service. And given that health care hasn't come on line, all you're doing is speculating based upon ideology. =Bob No, speculation based on even your experience. And you should know. Entrenched gummint bureaucrats are mostly a bunch of idiots. Doesn't matter which gummint agency. (Oh, until somebody decided to make you one, that is. But then, even a blind squirrel.....) Won't completely disagree about bureaucrats, but again, my post was about management style. Most letter carriers are very dedicated people, but the management is awful. One good example I can think of is that they like to move station managers around because they don't want them becoming too friendly with the workers (or so I was told by one of my station managers). =Bob
|
|
|
Post by aztecwin on Jul 24, 2010 15:33:39 GMT -8
The direction that heath care is headed can do nothing but turn out poorly. It will have lots of willing and right minded folks led by a bunch of idiots. It will be like I describe the Postal Service. Still a non sequitur because it has nothing at all to do with management v. customer service. And given that health care hasn't come on line, all you're doing is speculating based upon ideology. =Bob What do you expect the outcome to be? When you have bureaucrats put in leadership positions trying to provide care to an extra 20 million people with a pinched down supply of care, what will you get? You can have the finest Dr.s in the world, but if you must ration your service and are made to jump thru hoops by possibly incompetent and for sure inexperienced government management, you will not be successful.
|
|
|
Post by davdesid on Jul 24, 2010 15:35:06 GMT -8
No, speculation based on even your experience. And you should know. Entrenched gummint bureaucrats are mostly a bunch of idiots. Doesn't matter which gummint agency. (Oh, until somebody decided to make you one, that is. But then, even a blind squirrel.....) Won't completely disagree about bureaucrats, but again, my post was about management style. Most letter carriers are very dedicated people, but the management is awful. One good example I can think of is that they like to move station managers around because they don't want them becoming too friendly with the workers (or so I was told by one of my station managers). =Bob No disagreement on that. None at all. My brother in law works for USPS.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 24, 2010 19:21:14 GMT -8
Still a non sequitur because it has nothing at all to do with management v. customer service. And given that health care hasn't come on line, all you're doing is speculating based upon ideology. =Bob What do you expect the outcome to be? When you have bureaucrats put in leadership positions trying to provide care to an extra 20 million people with a pinched down supply of care, what will you get? You can have the finest Dr.s in the world, but if you must ration your service and are made to jump thru hoops by possibly incompetent and for sure inexperienced government management, you will not be successful. As if dealing with insurance companies will cause anyone to be "successful". Jeez, when will you right wing nuts figure out that corporate bureaucracies are just as bad as government bureaucracies and in most cases worse because they have to deal with the profit line? I can have the finest doctors in the world? Yeah, if I've got the bucks to fly to Germany or Switzerland or, I suppose to pay for them in this country. You forget that I spent 17 days at Scripps Mercy, had no surgery and still got hit with a 100K bill. You can whine all you want about the evils of "socialized medicine", but the simple fact is this: If I had been in a Canadian hospital with that sort of non-life threatening problem, I wouldn't have paid a farking dime. And you damn well better hope that in your dotage your kids don't have to put you in a home. My cousins had to do that with my uncle, who was told he had congestive heart failure and wouldn't live more than 6 months but hung on for 2 years at a cost of 6 grand a month. In the meantime, my mother-in-law, who is in the terminal stages of Alzheimers is costing her estate 1500 a month in Montreal. The simple fact is this - you've never had to face the cost of health care because you've had close to free health care since the time you joined the Nav at age 18. I don't begrudge you that, but I would hope that you would have a bit of sympathy for those who have not had that advantage. =Bob
|
|
|
Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 24, 2010 19:28:15 GMT -8
Won't completely disagree about bureaucrats, but again, my post was about management style. Most letter carriers are very dedicated people, but the management is awful. One good example I can think of is that they like to move station managers around because they don't want them becoming too friendly with the workers (or so I was told by one of my station managers). =Bob No disagreement on that. None at all. My brother in law works for USPS. I once screwed up and washed a uniform shirt with my check in it (USPS didn't have direct deposit at the time). I tried to talk about it to management and was told that I could not get a replacement check because they had to wait to make sure I wasn't conning them. They waited an entire quarter before they issued me a new check while happily collecting an extra quarter's interest on my 800 bucks. USPS management is scum and pretty much the worst scum I've ever had the displeasure to run into. The Postal Gestapo (Inspectors) have a cultural belief that everyone working for USPS will steal. It is the most hideous work environment I've ever seen. =Bob
|
|
|
Post by aztecwin on Jul 25, 2010 11:28:18 GMT -8
What do you expect the outcome to be? When you have bureaucrats put in leadership positions trying to provide care to an extra 20 million people with a pinched down supply of care, what will you get? You can have the finest Dr.s in the world, but if you must ration your service and are made to jump thru hoops by possibly incompetent and for sure inexperienced government management, you will not be successful. As if dealing with insurance companies will cause anyone to be "successful". Jeez, when will you right wing nuts figure out that corporate bureaucracies are just as bad as government bureaucracies and in most cases worse because they have to deal with the profit line? I can have the finest doctors in the world? Yeah, if I've got the bucks to fly to Germany or Switzerland or, I suppose to pay for them in this country. You forget that I spent 17 days at Scripps Mercy, had no surgery and still got hit with a 100K bill. You can whine all you want about the evils of "socialized medicine", but the simple fact is this: If I had been in a Canadian hospital with that sort of non-life threatening problem, I wouldn't have paid a farking dime. And you damn well better hope that in your dotage your kids don't have to put you in a home. My cousins had to do that with my uncle, who was told he had congestive heart failure and wouldn't live more than 6 months but hung on for 2 years at a cost of 6 grand a month. In the meantime, my mother-in-law, who is in the terminal stages of Alzheimers is costing her estate 1500 a month in Montreal. The simple fact is this - you've never had to face the cost of health care because you've had close to free health care since the time you joined the Nav at age 18. I don't begrudge you that, but I would hope that you would have a bit of sympathy for those who have not had that advantage. =Bob My remarks are about ObamaCare! I don't know why your poor choices that led to poor circumstances sent your skirt up over your head. What does that have to do with me or ObamaCare?
|
|
|
Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 25, 2010 13:15:51 GMT -8
As if dealing with insurance companies will cause anyone to be "successful". Jeez, when will you right wing nuts figure out that corporate bureaucracies are just as bad as government bureaucracies and in most cases worse because they have to deal with the profit line? I can have the finest doctors in the world? Yeah, if I've got the bucks to fly to Germany or Switzerland or, I suppose to pay for them in this country. You forget that I spent 17 days at Scripps Mercy, had no surgery and still got hit with a 100K bill. You can whine all you want about the evils of "socialized medicine", but the simple fact is this: If I had been in a Canadian hospital with that sort of non-life threatening problem, I wouldn't have paid a farking dime. And you damn well better hope that in your dotage your kids don't have to put you in a home. My cousins had to do that with my uncle, who was told he had congestive heart failure and wouldn't live more than 6 months but hung on for 2 years at a cost of 6 grand a month. In the meantime, my mother-in-law, who is in the terminal stages of Alzheimers is costing her estate 1500 a month in Montreal. The simple fact is this - you've never had to face the cost of health care because you've had close to free health care since the time you joined the Nav at age 18. I don't begrudge you that, but I would hope that you would have a bit of sympathy for those who have not had that advantage. =Bob My remarks are about ObamaCare! I don't know why your poor choices that led to poor circumstances sent your skirt up over your head. What does that have to do with me or ObamaCare? Amazing how sometimes even trolls can be truly sad. =Bob
|
|
|
Post by aztecwin on Jul 25, 2010 13:52:27 GMT -8
My remarks are about ObamaCare! I don't know why your poor choices that led to poor circumstances sent your skirt up over your head. What does that have to do with me or ObamaCare? Amazing how sometimes even trolls can be truly sad. =Bob No troll, just wondering what set you off. Some sort of envy or anger at being wrong?
|
|
|
Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Jul 25, 2010 15:14:22 GMT -8
Amazing how sometimes even trolls can be truly sad. =Bob No troll, just wondering what set you off. Some sort of envy or anger at being wrong? With Boob, that is usually the case. Fifteen years ago when I realized that he was all bluff and bufoonery, I wrote on the message board that I sincerely doubted that he had much more than a high school education. I still think that is the case. Whenever we prove him wrong, he resorts to nastiness. His education is seriously faulty, but he could at least try to be a nice person. I have always had hope for him. If you believed in prayer, maybe if we all prayed for a miracle...................
|
|
|
Post by davdesid on Jul 25, 2010 16:03:10 GMT -8
>>>You forget that I spent 17 days at Scripps Mercy, had no surgery and still got hit with a 100K bill. You can whine all you want about the evils of "socialized medicine", but the simple fact is this: If I had been in a Canadian hospital with that sort of non-life threatening problem, I wouldn't have paid a farking dime.<<<the Perfesser
You won't have to pay 100K. And neither will your insurance. Not even close.
If you were in Canada with a "non-life-threatening problem", you'd probably still be waiting to get in the hospital. And you probably never would get in. So, of course you wouldn't have paid a farking dime.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 25, 2010 16:42:14 GMT -8
Amazing how sometimes even trolls can be truly sad. =Bob No troll, just wondering what set you off. Some sort of envy or anger at being wrong? The usual thing that sets me off when you offer your nonsensical comments about health care. You've had it for free your entire adult life but begrudge anyone else that opportunity unless they do 20 in the military. Personally, I find that quite hypocritical. =Bob
|
|
|
Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 25, 2010 17:00:53 GMT -8
>>>You forget that I spent 17 days at Scripps Mercy, had no surgery and still got hit with a 100K bill. You can whine all you want about the evils of "socialized medicine", but the simple fact is this: If I had been in a Canadian hospital with that sort of non-life threatening problem, I wouldn't have paid a farking dime.<<<the Perfesser You won't have to pay 100K. And neither will your insurance. Not even close. If you were in Canada with a "non-life-threatening problem", you'd probably still be waiting to get in the hospital. And you probably never would get in. So, of course you wouldn't have paid a farking dime. Quite true. I got out of it paying only 25 grand, but that's still a Hell of a lot of bucks for someone who was on a relatively low fixed income. But it's crap that I'd never get into a hospital in Canada. While it wasn't life-threatening, I was quite ill - that should be obvious by the fact that I spent 17 days in the hospital. But consider this - even if it were the case, what does it cost for someone with a life-threatening illness? My Father-In-Law had a massive stroke and it was 8 hours before anyone found him. He was in ICU for close to a month and then in critical care for another 8 months before he died. His estate never paid a dime for that. While someone his age would have been on Medicare in this country, what would be the case in this country if someone in their late '50s, with no insurance, or not very good health insurance, but a reasonable estate had the same thing happen? His family would have had to sell the house and most everything else he owned in order to pay the bills before he could get any assistance. You guys really don't understand it, do you? My Uncle was 90 when he had to be put in a home. My cousins checked on getting any sort of assistance from the government and were told that they would have to sell everything he owned to pay the freight before he could get a dime. That doesn't happen in Canada, as clearly is the case with my Mother-In-Law's bills of 1500 a month for care that far exceeds anything my Uncle ever had to have. Which is why I continue to write that American health care is among the best in the world, but hardly the best, if you're rich. If you aren't, you're screwed because a lot of the health insurance carriers can drop you like a rock for most any reason they decide to dummy up. =Bob
|
|
|
Post by aztecwin on Jul 25, 2010 18:59:45 GMT -8
There are a huge majority of Postal Workers that are hard working and treat the public with all the respect and courtesy that you will find in most any business. Postal Management is just structured so poorly and with minimum reward for the responsibility that most do not enter or strive for higher level jobs. Even some of those who do enter management are critical and in mos cases sorry for their move. My neighbor and y son are two examples. My wife retired from the Post Office as a clerk. It is a hostile work environment and in my view should be taken private. The day after I quit I wrote on a local BBS that USPS should be taken private because the management couldn't get any worse. Unfortunately, for those who work there, it has gotten progressively worse over the years, to the point that, at least from what I've been told, it is damn close to impossible. The entire system operates on "suck" and all too often it operates on who you screw. Email me if you want more on that. =Bob I think I want to limit my participation in the discussion to what I know of. You are so far removed that anything you think you know might not be so.
|
|