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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Aug 26, 2011 20:22:15 GMT -8
I would never tell any woman what she could do with her own body. I do recommend some education before a woman is allowed to terminate a pregnancy. Knowing the emotional damage that some women suffer knowing that they caused tremendous pain to the fetus before it died, I say that education is paramount for any woman thinking of getting an abortion.
In 1973 when I started college and had no religious values, I knew many girls in Junior college who were using abortion as a means of birth control. Not one of them knew what was happening to the fetus other than that they believed that it was just some tissue that needed to be scraped off of the womb so it would stop growing as a parasite. (D&C).
Not one of the girls knew when the heart started beating in utero. Not one knew when the brain was capable of responding to pain. Not one knew anything about the developing fetus.
Having been in denial about the possibility of God up to age 26, I was not looking through religious eyes, but I knew that that means of "birth control" was totally wrong, and I told the girls.
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Post by azteccc on Aug 26, 2011 21:02:17 GMT -8
If it is ever okay, it has to be no one's choice but the mother's... I'm not sure how you are misunderstanding this. I'm saying, if this action is ever okay (which you admit it can be), then the only one who can determine whether it is okay in a particular case is that particular mother. You may disagree with a particular case, but that doesn't make your morality the holy grail.
If you think it is okay in some extreme circumstance, but are limiting what those are, you are in essence saying your morality is better than a mother's.
That's just it. I wouldn't limit abortions, its not my choice to make. If I were the mother, I think I would be able to make a choice on the matter before viability, but not after. If you can kill or harm the child indirectly, by drinking, smoking, tripping down the stairs, etc. then that child's life is still the mother's whether abortions are legal, moral, both or neither. If the child could immediately live outside of her body, I think they should have the right to. But again, my morality is not better than anyone else and I can admit that.
I really don't want to turn this into a political argument, they can stay over in the other board. Buuuut, this is hypocritical as fcuk and wreaks of most conservatives "I know better than you and youre going to accept it whether you like it or not"
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Post by 84aztec96 on Aug 26, 2011 22:40:02 GMT -8
Hi Azteccc
You stated: "I'm saying, if this action is ever okay (which you admit it can be), then the only one who can determine whether it is okay in a particular case is that particular mother.'
This just doesn't work. Just because something is OK (or permitted) in one situation, doesn't mean it should be permitted in ALL situations. All of a sudden saying the mother should decide every particular case because some cases are permitted doesn't make the logic work any better.
I think you're assuming that this is a moral relative situation. That the Mother gets to decide if it is morally right or wrong to have an abortion. But is that really the case? If killing an innocent human being is actually wrong, and abortion kills an innocent human being, then abortion is actually wrong, regardless how the mother feels about it.
You stated: "If you think it is okay in some extreme circumstance, but are limiting what those are, you are in essence saying your morality is better than a mother's."
Yes, I am. And the unborn children are thanking me for it.
You stated: "But again, my morality is not better than anyone else and I can admit that."
I don't think you really believe this. You think it is WRONG to limit abortion by law, and keeping abortion the way it is, is the RIGHT thing to do. And you think you are RIGHT about that.
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Post by aztecwin on Aug 27, 2011 9:11:35 GMT -8
I waited to comment here as my views are pretty well known. I believe that life begins at conception and that abortion is murder. Even if you were to accept the idea that it is not life until you can detect that separate heartbeat, it would be better. It is pretty easy to see that if there is that heartbeat there is a life. To me it is morally repugnant to take an innocent life.
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Aug 28, 2011 16:21:35 GMT -8
I waited to comment here as my views are pretty well known. I believe that life begins at conception and that abortion is murder. Even if you were to accept the idea that it is not life until you can detect that separate heartbeat, it would be better. It is pretty easy to see that if there is that heartbeat there is a life. To me it is morally repugnant to take an innocent life. Believe it or not I sort of agree with you. What I don't agree with is teaching abstinence as the only way to avoid teenage pregnancy and STD transmission. Teenage hormones are what they are and it's really stupid to assume every teenager in this country, especially when they're in college, will continue to not engage in sex because their church tells to do otherwise. And that doesn't even address the problem of a ton of teenage girls looking for love from a kid because they got no love at home. I dated one of those women - told me she would not have sex with me unless I agreed to getting her pregnant. A ton of women in this country are f****d up and a ton of men are all too willing to take advantage of them. =Bob
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Aug 28, 2011 16:52:39 GMT -8
Believe it or not I sort of agree with you. What I don't agree with is teaching abstinence as the only way to avoid teenage pregnancy and STD transmission. Teenage hormones are what they are and it's really stupid to assume every teenager in this country, especially when they're in college, will continue to not engage in sex because their church tells to do otherwise. And that doesn't even address the problem of a ton of teenage girls looking for love from a kid because they got no love at home. I dated one of those women - told me she would not have sex with me unless I agreed to getting her pregnant. A ton of women in this country are f****d up and a ton of men are all too willing to take advantage of them. =Bob That is sad.
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Aug 31, 2011 15:52:21 GMT -8
Believe it or not I sort of agree with you. What I don't agree with is teaching abstinence as the only way to avoid teenage pregnancy and STD transmission. Teenage hormones are what they are and it's really stupid to assume every teenager in this country, especially when they're in college, will continue to not engage in sex because their church tells to do otherwise. And that doesn't even address the problem of a ton of teenage girls looking for love from a kid because they got no love at home. I dated one of those women - told me she would not have sex with me unless I agreed to getting her pregnant. A ton of women in this country are f****d up and a ton of men are all too willing to take advantage of them. =Bob That is sad. She had a seriously ugly family and she never knew if she was loved. I imagine she got pregnant soon after she got out of high school with the fantasy belief too many women have that babies offer unconditional love when, as you know, for a rather long time kids mostly think about themselves. =Bob
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