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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Jul 22, 2010 18:25:24 GMT -8
Bill the Depression ended after three years. The economy was doing quite well for a while but in 1939 the slow down in a lot of trade brought about another economic collapse that was short lived.
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Post by waztec on Jul 24, 2010 6:36:40 GMT -8
Business will tend not to invest when they aren't sure of the rules under which the results of their investment will be subject. I am sure oil companies would not have invested in drilling in the gulf if they thought the government would just ban drilling and force them to sit on unproductive assets. If an investment requires power, the business has to assume the price of power in their projections. With Cap and Trade pending they have no idea. If they hire employees they need to calculate the cost of labor, they can't because of all the mandates the government is posting upon the employer. The list just goes on and on and investment dries up. On the flip side those with money to lend find a great entity to borrow their money - government. Why lend to a business man who has a great idea when the government will take the money and guarantee a return. This dries up funds to small business. This government stifles economic growth at all turns.
Everyone in this thread who talks about how Roosevelt spent to end the depression doesn't know history. He spent all right but the depression remained until WWII.
Unemployment benefits also follows economics basic supply and demand curve. The government supplies an incentive not work at a price. There is a demand for that incentive. To say that paying people not to work doesn't make people decide not to work is crazy. At the price the government offers there is a demand. That is why 40% of the people on unemployment benefits find jobs the week their benefits subside or the week after. The government should use a fade technique with their benefits. You get 10% less every month. That would phase in the loss of demand over an extended period. That would be better than cutting off the benefit. Anyone who really couldn't survive could apply for "other" benefits on a need basis. The reason that business in this country has been so successful for so long is due to the stable infrastructure and rule of law in the United States. I submit that business is successful because of that infrastructure - not in spite of it. Again and again and again, foreign business, governments and investors park their money here, because the infrastructure is one of the most predictable and business friendly on earth. To say that the government is is a drag on business is just not true. If it were our unemployment rate would be like Mexico. As to Roosevelt, I think that the final cure for the ups and downs after the (nice observation Joe) great depression was the war. But the changes in infrastructure and regulation made by Roosevelt in the thirties help set the stage for our post war prosperity. And one more thing, Roosevelt probably saved this democracy. To hear my parents talk about it, things got pretty dicey for a while. Now to unemployment. Unemployment never pays what you were making when you had a job. Government does not provide an incentive not to work. How can a payment that is far less than your earning potential be an incentive not to work? Unemployment barely covers living expenses. It is not a ticket to a lavish lifestyle. A person formerly in a job with a living wage would never prefer it to working . You don't even take into account the social injury and loss of self esteem that accompanies a loss of employment. There is tremendous social pressure to work in this country. (brought to you by our empathetic conservative element) Survey after survey, after survey show that their self image is affected positively by working. (What is the first question a new acquaintance asks you at a party? - What do you do for a living?) You are a pariah if you don't work in this country. Are there people who abuse? Yes. Are there small businessmen who would cheat their customers? Yes Carping about unemployment is just another device used by some to make sure that they do not have to pay an additional tax. Once again, those who do not succeed economically are vilified as amoral by people who have success and are no more likely to be moral themselves. You know, I really get tired of hearing it. One more thing. Cap and trade is an attempt to recognize costs that are (inexplicably) not recognized by classic economics, yet they are real. Businesses, as well as the rest of us are not paying those costs. We need to pay those costs. I would submit that we already do. For example, we are experiencing the warmest summer on record, despite a two year long reduction in solar radiation. |
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 24, 2010 6:59:05 GMT -8
Business will tend not to invest when they aren't sure of the rules under which the results of their investment will be subject. I am sure oil companies would not have invested in drilling in the gulf if they thought the government would just ban drilling and force them to sit on unproductive assets. If an investment requires power, the business has to assume the price of power in their projections. With Cap and Trade pending they have no idea. If they hire employees they need to calculate the cost of labor, they can't because of all the mandates the government is posting upon the employer. The list just goes on and on and investment dries up. On the flip side those with money to lend find a great entity to borrow their money - government. Why lend to a business man who has a great idea when the government will take the money and guarantee a return. This dries up funds to small business. This government stifles economic growth at all turns.
Everyone in this thread who talks about how Roosevelt spent to end the depression doesn't know history. He spent all right but the depression remained until WWII.
Unemployment benefits also follows economics basic supply and demand curve. The government supplies an incentive not work at a price. There is a demand for that incentive. To say that paying people not to work doesn't make people decide not to work is crazy. At the price the government offers there is a demand. That is why 40% of the people on unemployment benefits find jobs the week their benefits subside or the week after. The government should use a fade technique with their benefits. You get 10% less every month. That would phase in the loss of demand over an extended period. That would be better than cutting off the benefit. Anyone who really couldn't survive could apply for "other" benefits on a need basis. The reason that business in this country has been so successful for so long is due to the stable infrastructure and rule of law in the United States. I submit that business is successful because of that infrastructure - not in spite of it. Again and again and again, foreign business, governments and investors park their money here, because the infrastructure is one of the most predictable and business friendly on earth. To say that the government is is a drag on business is just not true. If it were our unemployment rate would be like Mexico. As to Roosevelt, I think that the final cure for the ups and downs after the (nice observation Joe) great depression was the war. But the changes in infrastructure and regulation made by Roosevelt in the thirties help set the stage for our post war prosperity. And one more thing, Roosevelt probably saved this democracy. To hear my parents talk about it, things got pretty dicey for a while. Now to unemployment. Unemployment never pays what you were making when you had a job. Government does not provide an incentive not to work. How can a payment that is far less than your earning potential be an incentive not to work? Unemployment barely covers living expenses. It is not a ticket to a lavish lifestyle. A person formerly in a job with a living wage would never prefer it to working . You don't even take into account the social injury and loss of self esteem that accompanies a loss of employment. There is tremendous social pressure to work in this country. (brought to you by our empathetic conservative element) Survey after survey, after survey show that their self image is affected positively by working. (What is the first question a new acquaintance asks you at a party? - What do you do for a living?) You are a pariah if you don't work in this country. Are there people who abuse? Yes. Are there small businessmen who would cheat their customers? Yes Carping about unemployment is just another device used by some to make sure that they do not have to pay an additional tax. Once again, those who do not succeed economically are vilified as amoral by people who have success and are no more likely to be moral themselves. You know, I really get tired of hearing it. One more thing. Cap and trade is an attempt to recognize costs that are (inexplicably) not recognized by classic economics, yet they are real. Businesses, as well as the rest of us are not paying those costs. We need to pay those costs. I would submit that we already do. For example, we are experiencing the warmest summer on record, despite a two year long reduction in solar radiation. For the most part, you are/were right. We have been very business friendly till recent years. There are reasons we no longer make things here and are more of a tech and service economy. I might school you on the Cap and Trade idea but it is now dead. I also might say that you and I would rather work, but we have generations of folks who live nicely on the dole and would have to be crow-barred away from their TV. Most of us can never come to any real understanding of the Depression and what got us out of it. I choose to think of the Social Security problem that started with an innocent little program and how FDR would look at what it has become. It should have been taken private from the start to keep it from becoming this huge unfunded liability that nobody seems to want to say what would put it on solid footing. |
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Post by waztec on Jul 24, 2010 7:37:29 GMT -8
The reason that business in this country has been so successful for so long is due to the stable infrastructure and rule of law in the United States. I submit that business is successful because of that infrastructure - not in spite of it. Again and again and again, foreign business, governments and investors park their money here, because the infrastructure is one of the most predictable and business friendly on earth. To say that the government is is a drag on business is just not true. If it were our unemployment rate would be like Mexico. As to Roosevelt, I think that the final cure for the ups and downs after the (nice observation Joe) great depression was the war. But the changes in infrastructure and regulation made by Roosevelt in the thirties help set the stage for our post war prosperity. And one more thing, Roosevelt probably saved this democracy. To hear my parents talk about it, things got pretty dicey for a while. Now to unemployment. Unemployment never pays what you were making when you had a job. Government does not provide an incentive not to work. How can a payment that is far less than your earning potential be an incentive not to work? Unemployment barely covers living expenses. It is not a ticket to a lavish lifestyle. A person formerly in a job with a living wage would never prefer it to working . You don't even take into account the social injury and loss of self esteem that accompanies a loss of employment. There is tremendous social pressure to work in this country. (brought to you by our empathetic conservative element) Survey after survey, after survey show that their self image is affected positively by working. (What is the first question a new acquaintance asks you at a party? - What do you do for a living?) You are a pariah if you don't work in this country. Are there people who abuse? Yes. Are there small businessmen who would cheat their customers? Yes Carping about unemployment is just another device used by some to make sure that they do not have to pay an additional tax. Once again, those who do not succeed economically are vilified as amoral by people who have success and are no more likely to be moral themselves. You know, I really get tired of hearing it. One more thing. Cap and trade is an attempt to recognize costs that are (inexplicably) not recognized by classic economics, yet they are real. Businesses, as well as the rest of us are not paying those costs. We need to pay those costs. I would submit that we already do. For example, we are experiencing the warmest summer on record, despite a two year long reduction in solar radiation. For the most part, you are/were right. We have been very business friendly till recent years. There are reasons we no longer make things here and are more of a tech and service economy. I might school you on the Cap and Trade idea but it is now dead. I also might say that you and I would rather work, but we have generations of folks who live nicely on the dole and would have to be crow-barred away from their TV. Most of us can never come to any real understanding of the Depression and what got us out of it. I choose to think of the Social Security problem that started with an innocent little program and how FDR would look at what it has become. It should have been taken private from the start to keep it from becoming this huge unfunded liability that nobody seems to want to say what would put it on solid footing. I really think that most of us are like you and me (with the possible exception of Joe, who takes high dudgeon to a whole new level - just kidding ;D ). They want to work (at least until they have earned retirement). When the majority of us don't want to work anymore we will really be in trouble. I just took a temporary job involving volunteers (several of whom were retired). There are a lot of good, dedicated people in this country. I am very lucky. Almost everyday I am reminded about just how terrific our citizens are. |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Jul 24, 2010 9:13:14 GMT -8
There are reasons we no longer make things here and are more of a tech and service economy. ACTUALLY, The United States is the leading manufacturing country in the world, twice that of Japan, or twice that of China. |
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