This country was built on the flow of capital. From new ideas, to funding start-up. to re-tooling and modernizing plants, and so forth. By raising rates on capital gains, you would cause people to reduce this flow of capital by cutting back on investments. Why? Just not worth the risk. And that is what investments are..risk. That's why the chance for higher returns. We need ro expand the source of capital because it leads to JOBS. If anything, we should reduce these rates and encourage more investing into the next microsofts and Apples of the world. This is how real jobs are increased.
Generally. investment dollars are the surplus of funds left over from people's incomes after it has been taxed at ordinary rates. If you invest in a stock, the corporation pays a corporate income tax, the investor pays ordinary tax on the dividends and if he sells after a year, a long term gain on any profit. What I am trying to say is there are all kinds of taxes levied on investments as time goes by.(That is if their is a profit. The last ten years there have been a ton of investor losses, but that's another topic.)
I think what really bugs me, Yoda, is that so many people out there think that the rewards I get for my hard work is also theirs. That it's just not fair that I. or anyone, has more than them. This fairmess crap is just not reality. I got news for them...life aint fair. We were all born equal, but that ended the moment we left the hospital and went home. For people fortunate to be living off their investments tells me the worked hard, sacrificed and saved for a LONG period of time. And we want more people having this type of success over their lifetimes. It means less reliance on government and their screwed up systems. Cuz they don't want to take care of us either. Shit, I'm rambling on. Anyways, You want to encourage capital investments, not discourage it.
So you're saying that Steve Jobs would not have started Apple if there had not been favorable treatment of capital gains?
Be serious.
I didn't start my business because I could get capital gains when I sold; I started it because I thought I could make money while I grew it and then sell it at a profit to fund my retirement. And it is the same with damn near everybody else. What motivates investment is the potential for profit -- as measured against other possible uses for the money.
"The religious factions will go on imposing their will on others unless the decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in public policy. To retreat from that separation would violate the principles of conservatism."
This country was built on the flow of capital. From new ideas, to funding start-up. to re-tooling and modernizing plants, and so forth. By raising rates on capital gains, you would cause people to reduce this flow of capital by cutting back on investments. Why? Just not worth the risk. And that is what investments are..risk. That's why the chance for higher returns. We need ro expand the source of capital because it leads to JOBS. If anything, we should reduce these rates and encourage more investing into the next microsofts and Apples of the world. This is how real jobs are increased.
Generally. investment dollars are the surplus of funds left over from people's incomes after it has been taxed at ordinary rates. If you invest in a stock, the corporation pays a corporate income tax, the investor pays ordinary tax on the dividends and if he sells after a year, a long term gain on any profit. What I am trying to say is there are all kinds of taxes levied on investments as time goes by.(That is if their is a profit. The last ten years there have been a ton of investor losses, but that's another topic.)
I think what really bugs me, Yoda, is that so many people out there think that the rewards I get for my hard work is also theirs. That it's just not fair that I. or anyone, has more than them. This fairmess crap is just not reality. I got news for them...life aint fair. We were all born equal, but that ended the moment we left the hospital and went home. For people fortunate to be living off their investments tells me the worked hard, sacrificed and saved for a LONG period of time. And we want more people having this type of success over their lifetimes. It means less reliance on government and their screwed up systems. Cuz they don't want to take care of us either. Shit, I'm rambling on. Anyways, You want to encourage capital investments, not discourage it.
So you're saying that Steve Jobs would not have started Apple if there had not been favorable treatment of capital gains?
Be serious.
I didn't start my business because I could get capital gains when I sold; I started it because I thought I could make money while I grew it and then sell it at a profit to fund my retirement. And it is the same with damn near everybody else. What motivates investment is the potential for profit -- as measured against other possible uses for the money.
How selfish soever man may be supposed, there are evidently some principles in his nature which interest him in the fortune of others, and render their happiness necessary to him, though he derives nothing from it except the pleasure of seeing it. Adam Smith
I don't know what is amusing about it; perhaps you might explain.
Also explain why financial capital is more valuable than human capital, thereby justifying a lower tax rate.
Finally, if you would be so kind, can you explain why it is that, cutting people off from investing (as you put it) has historically, had little impact on people actually investing.
Yoda out...
.
This country was built on the flow of capital. From new ideas, to funding start-up. to re-tooling and modernizing plants, and so forth. By raising rates on capital gains, you would cause people to reduce this flow of capital by cutting back on investments. Why? Just not worth the risk.
I just had a thought...
I'm gonna go tell Mrs. Yoda that I quit my job because having to pay 36% income tax, instead of 15%, is no longer worth the risk of driving to the office.
"The religious factions will go on imposing their will on others unless the decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in public policy. To retreat from that separation would violate the principles of conservatism."
"I find it amusing how people try to compare ordinary tax rates to capital gains rates. They are two entirely different scenarios altogether. The very LAST thing you want to do is cut people from investing. I think gains taxes should be lower."
Different, right. Income is income. I do not think capital gains should be taxed differently from other income. If one of you could prove that the lower rate causes the "job creators" to actually create a job I might buy. But there is no evidence, none, that it works that way. Low capital gains rates exaggerate the bifurcation of wealth.
It is unconscionable that one of our presidential candidates earns millions "unemployed" and pays a lower rate than people who are of moderate means. I wonder when the "stiff" will share his tax returns?
Welcome to capitalism. If you can't understand it or don't like it. move to a socialist country.
"The religious factions will go on imposing their will on others unless the decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in public policy. To retreat from that separation would violate the principles of conservatism."
This country was built on the flow of capital. From new ideas, to funding start-up. to re-tooling and modernizing plants, and so forth. By raising rates on capital gains, you would cause people to reduce this flow of capital by cutting back on investments. Why? Just not worth the risk. And that is what investments are..risk. That's why the chance for higher returns. We need ro expand the source of capital because it leads to JOBS. If anything, we should reduce these rates and encourage more investing into the next microsofts and Apples of the world. This is how real jobs are increased.
Generally. investment dollars are the surplus of funds left over from people's incomes after it has been taxed at ordinary rates. If you invest in a stock, the corporation pays a corporate income tax, the investor pays ordinary tax on the dividends and if he sells after a year, a long term gain on any profit. What I am trying to say is there are all kinds of taxes levied on investments as time goes by.(That is if their is a profit. The last ten years there have been a ton of investor losses, but that's another topic.)
I think what really bugs me, Yoda, is that so many people out there think that the rewards I get for my hard work is also theirs. That it's just not fair that I. or anyone, has more than them. This fairmess crap is just not reality. I got news for them...life aint fair. We were all born equal, but that ended the moment we left the hospital and went home. For people fortunate to be living off their investments tells me the worked hard, sacrificed and saved for a LONG period of time. And we want more people having this type of success over their lifetimes. It means less reliance on government and their screwed up systems. Cuz they don't want to take care of us either. Shit, I'm rambling on. Anyways, You want to encourage capital investments, not discourage it.
So you're saying that Steve Jobs would not have started Apple if there had not been favorable treatment of capital gains?
Be serious.
I didn't start my business because I could get capital gains when I sold; I started it because I thought I could make money while I grew it and then sell it at a profit to fund my retirement. And it is the same with damn near everybody else. What motivates investment is the potential for profit -- as measured against other possible uses for the money.
Yoda out...
.
Steve jobs would have started Apple, but he still would be in his garage if investors didn't give him the capital to get a building, furnish it, buy or lease the equipment, hire staff and pay their salaries and benefits, devise a marketing plan and purchase the necessary resources to build and sell his product at higher volumes. He just didn't write a personal check. And that's pretty much how all companies are started, unless the principals are wealthy themselves and can self-finance. I don't know what business you had started, but if you didn't finance it yourself, someone or some bank had to help. I'm assuming it was through loans, but investors usually get stock.
Depends what profit you are talking about. profit in the form of dividends, or the profit from the sale of the stock or partnership interest.. Everybody invests for profit. But why would I leave my money in an investment(with no secure ot guaranteed return) for one to two years, or whatever, if they are going to tax at high rates? Just as soon leave it in t-bills or bonds. Or make secure loans for the short term and just collect interest(profit)
Welcome to capitalism. If you can't understand it or don't like it. move to a socialist country.
Be serious. The difference between a capitalistic country into a socialistic country is the favored tax treatment of capital gains? That's just silly.
Yoda out...
.
Silly or not, where would you want to live and start a business. Guys like what's his name above are just griggin jealous and part of that entitlement mentality. he's got some agenda in his attitude about weealthy people.
Be serious. The difference between a capitalistic country into a socialistic country is the favored tax treatment of capital gains? That's just silly.
Yoda out...
.
Silly or not, where would you want to live and start a business. Guys like what's his name above are just griggin jealous and part of that entitlement mentality. he's got some agenda in his attitude about weealthy people.
I would like to live in a society where the wealthy do not have an entitlement mentality -- where the taking away of FAVORED tax status isn't viewed as socialism -- where the tax structure favors the middle class so that they may become wealthy and not the wealthy so that they may become more wealthy and further distance themselves from the middle class. I'd go on, but I don't think we're on the same page here.
And for clarity, I don't hate the rich and I'm not frigging jealous of them. I've paid capital gains on about a $1 mil sale of assets.
"The religious factions will go on imposing their will on others unless the decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in public policy. To retreat from that separation would violate the principles of conservatism."
Silly or not, where would you want to live and start a business. Guys like what's his name above are just griggin jealous and part of that entitlement mentality. he's got some agenda in his attitude about weealthy people.
I would like to live in a society where the wealthy do not have an entitlement mentality -- where the taking away of FAVORED tax status isn't viewed as socialism -- where the tax structure favors the middle class so that they may become wealthy and not the wealthy so that they may become more wealthy and further distance themselves from the middle class. I'd go on, but I don't think we're on the same page here.
And for clarity, I don't hate the rich and I'm not frigging jealous of them. I've paid capital gains on about a $1 mil sale of assets.
Yoda out...
.
I was talking about inevitec, Yoda. We may not be on the same page, but i respect your opinion.
"I find it amusing how people try to compare ordinary tax rates to capital gains rates. They are two entirely different scenarios altogether. The very LAST thing you want to do is cut people from investing. I think gains taxes should be lower."
Different, right. Income is income. I do not think capital gains should be taxed differently from other income. If one of you could prove that the lower rate causes the "job creators" to actually create a job I might buy. But there is no evidence, none, that it works that way. Low capital gains rates exaggerate the bifurcation of wealth.
It is unconscionable that one of our presidential candidates earns millions "unemployed" and pays a lower rate than people who are of moderate means. I wonder when the "stiff" will share his tax returns?
Welcome to capitalism. If you can't understand it or don't like it. move to a socialist country.
Am I irritating you, tuff?
I understand capitalism quite well and because I am successful, I have my share of investments.
Methinks the free exchange of ideas challenge your blood pressure a little too much. Please note that we are still free to express our opinion, although I note that the fact that we can still express ourselves irritates conservatives to no end. It is called the first amendment, which is one of my favorites as long as it is speech and not money talking.
And since my family has been fighting in our wars since the revolutionary conflagration, I figure that I have as much right to be here as you. I will continue to point out our warts.
The fact is that we have a person running for president who has as much in common with people who actually have to live with the effect of his brand of capitalism as a sea slug has to Albert Einstein. He is very off putting, because you cannot trust him to ever tell the truth or maintain any consistency-as he spends something like 10-1 to beat his opponents.
Current capital gains taxation rates are an abomination. Poor investors. They are so abused.
Respect is earned, tuff. I don't care to earn yours and with childish, leave if you disagree, comments like that, you most assuredly won't earn mine. Neither of us will live one second less, or more, as a result. That is unless you fail to gain control of your blood pressure, my friend. This is a college alumni athletic board, not the floor of the Senate.
Welcome to capitalism. If you can't understand it or don't like it. move to a socialist country.
Am I irritating you, tuff?
I understand capitalism quite well and because I am successful, I have my share of investments.
Methinks the free exchange of ideas challenge your blood pressure a little too much. Please note that we are still free to express our opinion, although I note that the fact that we can still express ourselves irritates conservatives to no end. It is called the first amendment, which is one of my favorites as long as it is speech and not money talking.
And since my family has been fighting in our wars since the revolutionary conflagration, I figure that I have as much right to be here as you. I will continue to point out our warts.
The fact is that we have a person running for president who has as much in common with people who actually have to live with the effect of his brand of capitalism as a sea slug has to Albert Einstein. He is very off putting, because you cannot trust him to ever tell the truth or maintain any consistency-as he spends something like 10-1 to beat his opponents.
Current capital gains taxation rates are an abomination. Poor investors. They are so abused.
Respect is earned, tuff. I don't care to earn yours and with childish, leave if you disagree, comments like that, you most assuredly won't earn mine. Neither of us will live one second less, or more, as a result. That is unless you fail to gain control of your blood pressure, my friend. This is a college alumni athletic board, not the floor of the Senate.
I suppose John Kerry , the richest Senator in the country, has a lot of common interest with the citizens of this country when he ran for Prez.
I understand capitalism quite well and because I am successful, I have my share of investments.
Methinks the free exchange of ideas challenge your blood pressure a little too much. Please note that we are still free to express our opinion, although I note that the fact that we can still express ourselves irritates conservatives to no end. It is called the first amendment, which is one of my favorites as long as it is speech and not money talking.
And since my family has been fighting in our wars since the revolutionary conflagration, I figure that I have as much right to be here as you. I will continue to point out our warts.
The fact is that we have a person running for president who has as much in common with people who actually have to live with the effect of his brand of capitalism as a sea slug has to Albert Einstein. He is very off putting, because you cannot trust him to ever tell the truth or maintain any consistency-as he spends something like 10-1 to beat his opponents.
Current capital gains taxation rates are an abomination. Poor investors. They are so abused.
Respect is earned, tuff. I don't care to earn yours and with childish, leave if you disagree, comments like that, you most assuredly won't earn mine. Neither of us will live one second less, or more, as a result. That is unless you fail to gain control of your blood pressure, my friend. This is a college alumni athletic board, not the floor of the Senate.
I suppose John Kerry , the richest Senator in the country, has a lot of common interest with the citizens of this country when he ran for Prez.
Your implication is true enough. The difference was his opponent. An opponent who, upon election destroyed a good deal of my faith in our institutions.
Re: Ryan Budget - What a Crock « Reply #52 on Apr 17, 2012, 1:48pm »
When Obama was running for President, he was asked if he would raise the capital gains tax even if it would result in a lower income to the government. He said he would because of fairness.
The rate at which capital gains is taxed determines, in great part, how much capital gain is taxed. Raising the rates will lower the amount taxed. Money stops moving as much because everyone is trying to avoid the tax. Safer investments make more sense because you won't get as much from making a more risky investment anyway. We need folks taking risky investments. That is how the economy grows.When I pay capital gains, it is on money that is earned from money I earned and was already taxed, from a company who earned money and was already taxed. Any capital gains have already been taxed and taxed again. The rate should be low or even zero - to be fair. The middle class is mostly not taxed on their capital gains. Most of their capital gains happen inside a 401K or IRA. Their capital gains are zero on those investments. That is fairness.
Imagine if a year took a century to unfold and you were born in the dead of winter; the coming of summer would seem a frightening change, with temperatures rising dramatically and seemingly without limit.
Joined: Jul 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 9,819 Location: Valley Center/Escondido
Re: Ryan Budget - What a Crock « Reply #53 on Apr 17, 2012, 6:24pm »
Tax policy should be flat, fair, and not a tool for social engineering. I tend to keep more assets that trigger tax on sale in sheltered accounts and MLPs or assets that I have had for decades like XOM and SRE in taxable accounts where when passed on they will get the benefit of a stepped up cost basis. That should not be necessary! Look into trusts or joint accounts with younger family members for non sheltered accounts.
Tax policy should be flat, fair, and not a tool for social engineering. I tend to keep more assets that trigger tax on sale in sheltered accounts and MLPs or assets that I have had for decades like XOM and SRE in taxable accounts where when passed on they will get the benefit of a stepped up cost basis. That should not be necessary! Look into trusts or joint accounts with younger family members for non sheltered accounts.
Of course you want a "flat" system. That's because it would benefit you and a lot of other fat cats like you. God help us if us Socialist types like me would like to see the middle class get a fair shake. And social enginerring has nothing to do with it. It's just common sense. History has shown that a growing middle class, one in which the "system" helps to grow the middle class, helps everyone make more money and actually creates more "rich" people. You should support a progressive system if you, in fact, support a growing economy.
Tax policy should be flat, fair, and not a tool for social engineering. I tend to keep more assets that trigger tax on sale in sheltered accounts and MLPs or assets that I have had for decades like XOM and SRE in taxable accounts where when passed on they will get the benefit of a stepped up cost basis. That should not be necessary! Look into trusts or joint accounts with younger family members for non sheltered accounts.
Of course you want a "flat" system. That's because it would benefit you and a lot of other fat cats like you. God help us if us Socialist types like me would like to see the middle class get a fair shake. And social enginerring has nothing to do with it. It's just common sense. History has shown that a growing middle class, one in which the "system" helps to grow the middle class, helps everyone make more money and actually creates more "rich" people. You should support a progressive system if you, in fact, support a growing economy.
Of course we want the Middle Class and Blue Collar folks to have a fair shake right along with high income folks. We want upward mobility for all. How many times have you been hired by a poor person? How many jobs get created when we attack wealth rather than aspire to it. You got to get your head screwed on straight or you might spread that loser mentality to your kids.
Re: Ryan Budget - What a Crock « Reply #56 on Apr 18, 2012, 5:56pm »
Win, it's clear you have no historical perspective on this subject. The middle class expanded during the period of the most progressive taxes and conmtracted during the period of the least progressive taxes.
Win, it's clear you have no historical perspective on this subject. The middle class expanded during the period of the most progressive taxes and conmtracted during the period of the least progressive taxes.
It must not have stuck with you that those periods of high tax brackets were also the time with the most tax dodges. Now then, when was the last time you or one of your friends was hired by a poor person?
What is it about the word "unsustainable" that the left doesn't understand?
What is it about the phrase military-industrial complex that you don't understand? I can't remember if it's you, Afan, or both of you who make your livings selling weapons, but no matter - anyone who sells weapons is a whore to Congressmen, right and left - or more to the point, members of Congress are whores to that industry.
Please tell us, FishDoor, what's "sustainable" about losing most of our manufacturing jobs other than the weapons builders? And really, if you think chopping most all regulations and killing unions will bring those jobs back when Asian nations benefit from what amounts to slave wages, you're a fool.
I find it amusing how people try to compare ordinary tax rates to capital gains rates. They are two entirely different scenarios altogether. The very LAST thing you want to do is cut people from investing. I think gains taxes should be lower.
Take a hike, kid. Ain't like you understand either.
![[Home]](http://images.proboards.com/new/menu/home.png "[Home]")
![[New Topics]](http://images.proboards.com/menu/topics.png "[New Topics]")
![[Help]](http://images.proboards.com/new/menu/help.png "[Help]")
![[Search]](http://images.proboards.com/new/menu/search.png "[Search]")
![[Login]](http://images.proboards.com/new/menu/login.png "[Login]")
![[Register]](http://images.proboards.com/new/menu/register.png "[Register]")
![[Search This Thread]](http://images.proboards.com/new/buttons/search2.png "[Search This Thread]")
![[Share Topic]](http://images.proboards.com/new/buttons/share.png "[Share Topic]")
![[Print]](http://images.proboards.com/new/buttons/print.png "[Print]")
Author
![[avatar]](http://www.surpluslines.com/yoda.gif "[avatar]")
Logged
![[avatar]](http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k387/aztecwin/th_Annoyer-1.jpg "[avatar]")
![[image]](http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/972/ozerog.jpg "[image]")