"America loves a winner and will not tolerate a loser" - George Patton
Joined: Jul 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 5,180 Location: Fallbrook, CA
Why this recovery is almost dead in the water. « Thread Started on Apr 15, 2012, 6:59pm »
It's the slowest recovery in history, much slower than the recovery of 1934-37. Why is this so? Well, it's because the people at the top of the current admnistration - - - okay, Barack Obama - - - have virtually no clue about what works and what does not in a national economy.
In the piece linked below, Fred Barnes points to many important aspects of the Obama administration's failure to make good decisions affecting the economy. He says of those in the Obama team that they . . .
. . . believe the investor class of millionaires and billionaires will invest as robustly as ever, producing growth and jobs, even if subjected to higher income tax rates and a doubled rate on capital gains. They’re wrong on both counts.
But there is more, lots more. The fact is that if the captain of a ship does not know the correct course needed to reach his home port, the vessel will wander aimlessly. That is also true when politicians seek to run a nation's economy. I shudder to think of what will happen in an Obama second term!
Re: Why this recovery is almost dead in the water. « Reply #1 on Apr 21, 2012, 10:51pm »
Really? The slowest in history? Please offer something than rather short opinion piece from a right-wing rag to back up that statement. I mean really, you offer Freddy Barnes as a source? Christ, if you want to offer economic arguments try doing some original research instead of giving us some right-wing pundit who happens to agree with your unknowledgeably opinion.
Sorry Will, but it's a simple fact - I don't pretend to understand economics but you assume, that because you've read some horseshit Randian websites, you do. And because of that, you're willing to offer blanket statements that may or may not be true for the simple reason that you believe citing a source somehow makes your argument valid.
You taught language, Will. You really have no standing in these conversations.
It's the slowest recovery in history, much slower than the recovery of 1934-37. Why is this so? Well, it's because the people at the top of the current admnistration - - - okay, Barack Obama - - - have virtually no clue about what works and what does not in a national economy.
In the piece linked below, Fred Barnes points to many important aspects of the Obama administration's failure to make good decisions affecting the economy. He says of those in the Obama team that they . . .
. . . believe the investor class of millionaires and billionaires will invest as robustly as ever, producing growth and jobs, even if subjected to higher income tax rates and a doubled rate on capital gains. They’re wrong on both counts.
But there is more, lots more. The fact is that if the captain of a ship does not know the correct course needed to reach his home port, the vessel will wander aimlessly. That is also true when politicians seek to run a nation's economy. I shudder to think of what will happen in an Obama second term!
It's the slowest recovery in history, much slower than the recovery of 1934-37.
During this time period the State of California started the sales tax and the use tax that stuck a fork in businesses which were close to death. Great. Thanks government for sticking a tax on dying people...again.
Also during this time period, and more significantly, businesses and individuals were shell-shocked, hamstrung by the proposed national FICA, 15.3% on wages, social security tax brought out by Roostervelt and his tax the poor roommates, waiting, slowly for a permanent death for it to start in 1937.
This is so exactly like the 1930s these days, that if Roosevelt is...oh sorry, if osama is re-elected we'll hit WWIII in three years.
So, I say, Vote for War, Re-elect Osama...and Bin Laden for Veep!
Re: Why this recovery is almost dead in the water. « Reply #3 on Apr 22, 2012, 9:45am »
The State of California revived and pursued the Use tax in 2009 with a vigor. Only problem is they didn't bother asking the private sector folks first before spending all that money on useless labor wages, payroll taxes, workers' comp insurance, unemployment tax, federal fica taxes, health care insurance costs, sick time pay, vacation pay, health care tax, pension accruals, and of course, free Vegas party trips, if there was a use tax to actually collect.
DUH.
How many of you filled out the use tax, with zeros covering the five years the State of California demanded from you or else they would seize all of your assets? Did you get the infamous use tax letter???
Really? The slowest in history? Please offer something than rather short opinion piece from a right-wing rag to back up that statement. I mean really, you offer Freddy Barnes as a source? Christ, if you want to offer economic arguments try doing some original research instead of giving us some right-wing pundit who happens to agree with your unknowledgeably opinion.
Sorry Will, but it's a simple fact - I don't pretend to understand economics but you assume, that because you've read some horseshit Randian websites, you do. And because of that, you're willing to offer blanket statements that may or may not be true for the simple reason that you believe citing a source somehow makes your argument valid.
You taught language, Will. You really have no standing in these conversations.
It's the slowest recovery in history, much slower than the recovery of 1934-37. Why is this so? Well, it's because the people at the top of the current admnistration - - - okay, Barack Obama - - - have virtually no clue about what works and what does not in a national economy.
In the piece linked below, Fred Barnes points to many important aspects of the Obama administration's failure to make good decisions affecting the economy. He says of those in the Obama team that they . . .
. . . believe the investor class of millionaires and billionaires will invest as robustly as ever, producing growth and jobs, even if subjected to higher income tax rates and a doubled rate on capital gains. They’re wrong on both counts.
But there is more, lots more. The fact is that if the captain of a ship does not know the correct course needed to reach his home port, the vessel will wander aimlessly. That is also true when politicians seek to run a nation's economy. I shudder to think of what will happen in an Obama second term!
Right Wing Rag? How about respond to the information and really valid opinions expressed in the article? One item near the end is Obama's silly stand on the Buffett Rule. How can you advocate a policy that will reduces overall tax revenue? Think before making those kind of silly responses.
"America loves a winner and will not tolerate a loser" - George Patton
Joined: Jul 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 5,180 Location: Fallbrook, CA
Re: Why this recovery is almost dead in the water. « Reply #6 on Apr 25, 2012, 3:47pm »
After six years .. . . SIX DAMNED YEARS! . . . . of interacting with him, I have reached the conclusion that Bob responds negatively largely for the sake of responding negatively.
Here are the facts. . .
A) Every recession going back to and including the middle '30s has had a recovery that was much, much more robust than this one has had. The Great Recession bottomed out in '32 and '33. There was, relative to the terrible hole of the early 30s, a big upsurge in the U.S. economy form '34 to late '37. Then the economy tanked again badly in '38. By 1940 the unemployment rate was still over 15%. Some Obama supporters will say, "Hey, the rate is now only 8.2%." This is of course misleading, since the statistics have been cooked to make the rate look better. Calculated the old way, today's rate would be over 10%, perhaps well over that. (Info on the Depression recovery: http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/recovery.htm
B) Not all the trouble can be blamed on Pres. Obama, but several decisions he has made have been big mistakes. Had Obama come out strongly in favor of an all-out drilling program offshore and in Alaska, we would have lower gasoline prices, perhaps much lower. It's not the amount of new oil that would be online now, though by now there would have been some. It's that the speculators would have seen that the U.S. was serious about exploiting our vast resources. Knowing that fairly shortly the U.S. would be pumping much more oil (and natural gas), the speculators would have acted accordingly and we would now be paying much less at the pump.
There are a number of other things that Obama could have done, including not throwing so much borrowed money down rat holes such as Solyndra. With real budgetary realism, we would not be relying so much on the Chinese to finance to our deficit.
Obama as no plan for economic recovery. None. The green energy fantasy is pretty much exposed as a fraud. Pouring money into crony enterprises (the Stimulus) has not worked. What is there left for BHO to brag about?
Let's see. He says that he saved us from another Depression. Doubtful. Certainly not provable. Hey, how about this? Barack Obama saved us from a horrible, devastating alien invasion from outer space. You scoff? You shouldn't. After all, have you seen any flying saucers making bombing runs on your neighborhood lately? I didn't think so.
Yes, sir! Obama has done a super job protecting us from Moon Martians and Alpha Centaurans! That ought to be enough to get him reelected.
AzWm
« Last Edit: Apr 25, 2012, 5:02pm by AztecWilliam »
Joined: Jul 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 9,812 Location: Valley Center/Escondido
Re: Why this recovery is almost dead in the water. « Reply #7 on Apr 25, 2012, 3:53pm »
One more thing that would have happened if we had been agressive about drilling. We would have more good paying jobs everywhere in that industry and they would be paying tax rather than collecting one form of aid or another.
One more thing that would have happened if we had been agressive about drilling. We would have more good paying jobs everywhere in that industry and they would be paying tax rather than collecting one form of aid or another.
Exactly. And speaking of this issue, I hope everybody realizes that a few of the drilling rigs not allowed to operate in the Gulf of Mexico have been towed to other parts of the world, perhaps never to return to U.S. waters.
AzWm
« Last Edit: Apr 25, 2012, 8:38pm by AztecWilliam »
One more thing that would have happened if we had been agressive about drilling. We would have more good paying jobs everywhere in that industry and they would be paying tax rather than collecting one form of aid or another.
Exactly. And speaking of this issue, I hope everybody realizes that a few of the drilling rigs not allowed to operated in the Gulf of Mexico have been towed to other parts of the world, perhaps never to return to U.S. waters.
AzWm
BS
It is NOT a supply and demand problem but one of speculation in oil futures that has caused the prices to jump so high. Speculation in oil futures should be a crime.
Exactly. And speaking of this issue, I hope everybody realizes that a few of the drilling rigs not allowed to operated in the Gulf of Mexico have been towed to other parts of the world, perhaps never to return to U.S. waters.
AzWm
BS
It is NOT a supply and demand problem but one of speculation in oil futures that has caused the prices to jump so high. Speculation in oil futures should be a crime.
Speculators decide how they will play a given market based on their reading of how future events will impact that market. If we were going pedal to the metal with new exploitation of the resources that we have, that fact would be worked into the speculators' calculations. But we are not. We are finding all sorts of reasons why we should not exploit our resources. That attitude must change.
Exactly. And speaking of this issue, I hope everybody realizes that a few of the drilling rigs not allowed to operated in the Gulf of Mexico have been towed to other parts of the world, perhaps never to return to U.S. waters.
AzWm
BS
It is NOT a supply and demand problem but one of speculation in oil futures that has caused the prices to jump so high. Speculation in oil futures should be a crime.
Just how naive are you? Of course prices would come down if we had domestic production and jobs. It is about money going off shore to the Middle East rather than creating activity within our own economy that pains me. There are two sides of every speculation and the same people would be making money on the down side. That is what happens and it has a purpose. It is called hedging.
Exactly. And speaking of this issue, I hope everybody realizes that a few of the drilling rigs not allowed to operated in the Gulf of Mexico have been towed to other parts of the world, perhaps never to return to U.S. waters.
AzWm
BS
It is NOT a supply and demand problem but one of speculation in oil futures that has caused the prices to jump so high. Speculation in oil futures should be a crime.
Are you focused on who is doing the speculating? Be careful. If the private speculates, it is good. If the government or foreign interests are speculating in our markets, this is bad.
Joined: Feb 2012 Gender: Male Posts: 874 Location: Los Angeles
Re: Why this recovery is almost dead in the water. « Reply #13 on Apr 26, 2012, 7:40pm »
One factor killing this so called recovery is all the tax increases the federal government has imposed in the past 3 years on businesses and individuals. It's ridiculous. Anyone know the average rate increase in the past 3 Years?.............................................................................................It's actually pretty low.
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