"America loves a winner and will not tolerate a loser" - George Patton
Joined: Jul 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 5,181 Location: Fallbrook, CA
The Greeks: Can they change their culture? « Thread Started on Jul 20, 2011, 12:46am »
There are many political angles to this story, but more than anything it focuses on values. How can a people change their values when faced with a crisis that makes their old ones no longer valid?
Friedman has written a good one this time. Here is one quote worth remembering. . .
Greece is the only country in the world where Greeks don’t behave like Greeks. Their welfare state, financed by Euro-oil, has bred it out of them.
There are many political angles to this story, but more than anything it focuses on values. How can a people change their values when faced with a crisis that makes their old ones no longer valid?
Friedman has written a good one this time. Here is one quote worth remembering. . .
Greece is the only country in the world where Greeks don’t behave like Greeks. Their welfare state, financed by Euro-oil, has bred it out of them.
AzWm
Offer me an actual political analysis instead of just what you've read on some website ans maybe I'll respond. To this point all you're offering is what Faux News or some right wing-nut website told you.
I mean really Will - can you not think for yourself and offer an opinion that doesn't relay upon links?
If you can offer an argument do so. Offering links is nothing more than turds. And, quite frankly, I'm really tired of you turd offerings. My goodness, you're equating our country with Greece for no good reason other than libertarian ideology.
"America loves a winner and will not tolerate a loser" - George Patton
Joined: Jul 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 5,181 Location: Fallbrook, CA
Re: The Greeks: Can they change their culture? « Reply #2 on Jul 20, 2011, 11:15pm »
Geez, Bob, I am getting so sick and tired of your standard response. The issue discussed by Friedman, who, incidentally, writes for the NEW YORK Times, is one that has important implications for many nations, including our own.
Do you object to items from the NY Times being discussed? If so, say so.
Do you object to issues related to the extent to which nations redistribute their citizens' income (which is at the heart of the Greek problem)? If so, say so.
Perhaps you just don't like Greeks. If so, say so.
In others, what's your problem?
I post links to published items that seem to me to discuss important issues in an intelligent manner. What I hope is that respondents will offer their views, whether or not they are in agreement, in an equally intelligent manner. In this case, it would be interesting to hear how other people feel about the cultural values discussed by one of America's most eminent commentators. How about trying for once to do that when I post something. Either that or ignore it.
Geez, Bob, I am getting so sick and tired of your standard response. The issue discussed by Friedman, who, incidentally, writes for the NEW YORK Times, is one that has important implications for many nations, including our own.
Oh dear, I've challenged you and your bull$#!+ libertarian, ideological crap. I'm sorry that you have to deal with someone telling you that you're full of crap but maybe you need to live with the fact that sitting around the dinner table and offering opinions to your family doesn't work on here.
I post links to published items that seem to me to discuss important issues in an intelligent manner. What I hope is that respondents will offer their views, whether or not they are in agreement, in an equally intelligent manner. In this case, it would be interesting to hear how other people feel about the cultural values discussed by one of America's most eminent commentators. How about trying for once to do that when I post something. Either that or ignore it.
AzWm
Bullshit; you offer libertarian crap and you play the victim when you get called on it - typical right-wing bull$#!+.
Sorry, but when you post right-wing crap I'm going to call you on it. Sorry, but learn to live with it. Ain't like anything you write has any basis in reality. You live in a libertarian fantasy world.
Re: The Greeks: Can they change their culture? « Reply #5 on Jul 21, 2011, 10:54pm »
My analysis is that: =Bob hated the Greeks on campus when he was a student at SDSU, but he lived the rest of his life just like the Greeks...on the govt. dole.
My analysis is that: =Bob hated the Greeks on campus when he was a student at SDSU, but he lived the rest of his life just like the Greeks...on the govt. dole.
My analysis is that =Bob posted this just shortly before passing out. That tone is a dead give away! Kind of takes away any chance of a lucid discussion of the topic.
Geez, Bob, I am getting so sick and tired of your standard response. The issue discussed by Friedman, who, incidentally, writes for the NEW YORK Times, is one that has important implications for many nations, including our own.
Do you object to items from the NY Times being discussed? If so, say so.
Do you object to issues related to the extent to which nations redistribute their citizens' income (which is at the heart of the Greek problem)? If so, say so.
Perhaps you just don't like Greeks. If so, say so.
In others, what's your problem?
I post links to published items that seem to me to discuss important issues in an intelligent manner. What I hope is that respondents will offer their views, whether or not they are in agreement, in an equally intelligent manner. In this case, it would be interesting to hear how other people feel about the cultural values discussed by one of America's most eminent commentators. How about trying for once to do that when I post something. Either that or ignore it.
AzWm
Oh dear, I've pissed you off. Learn to live with it. I mean really:
"most eminent commentators"?
How pathetic is that?
Think for yourself instead of offering crap from other sources. You've fallen into the Pooh world of trolling bull$#!+. That's not where you want to be. Pooh is a total waste of time.
My analysis is that: =Bob hated the Greeks on campus when he was a student at SDSU, but he lived the rest of his life just like the Greeks...on the govt. dole.
My analysis is that =Bob posted this just shortly before passing out. That tone is a dead give away! Kind of takes away any chance of a lucid discussion of the topic.
Yawn. It's really rather pathetic that you can't offer the same troll that you offered 3 years ago. Let's face it Pooh - you have no imagination, You have no creative ability. In short, your just a pathetic person who took a couple classes at SDSU without any intention of ever getting a degree.
Your trolls are quite sad because you hate those of us who actually managed to do the work required to get through grad school, something you were never capable of doing. You really are quite pathetic.
My analysis is that =Bob posted this just shortly before passing out. That tone is a dead give away! Kind of takes away any chance of a lucid discussion of the topic.
Yawn. It's really rather pathetic that you can't offer the same troll that you offered 3 years ago. Let's face it Pooh - you have no imagination, You have no creative ability. In short, your just a pathetic person who took a couple classes at SDSU without any intention of ever getting a degree.
Your trolls are quite sad because you hate those of us who actually managed to do the work required to get through grad school, something you were never capable of doing. You really are quite pathetic.
Re: The Greeks: Can they change their culture? « Reply #10 on Jul 24, 2011, 9:24pm »
The problem is there are those on the right, including Will, who would love to equate this country to Greece despite the fact that our country is nothing like Greece. The problem comes from people, including Friedman, who think they can equate Southern European screw-ups to the U.S. economy.
Sorry, but it doesn't work that way - the Greek political and economic cultures have nothing to do with the American cultures. And I really get fed up with people who read this or that website assuming they can translate an European political and economic culture into an American culture.
The problem is there are those on the right, including Will, who would love to equate this country to Greece despite the fact that our country is nothing like Greece. The problem comes from people, including Friedman, who think they can equate Southern European screw-ups to the U.S. economy.
Sorry, but it doesn't work that way - the Greek political and economic cultures have nothing to do with the American cultures. And I really get fed up with people who read this or that website assuming they can translate an European political and economic culture into an American culture.
==Bob
The most important issue in this regard is Olive consumption. When we triple our annual consumption of olives and olive oil, then we will be well on our way to emulating the Greeks. Conversely, when the Greeks give up their olive consumption they will be like us, industrious and productive. I am convinced that there is something in olives that make the Greeks liberals looking for handouts. from government or the tourist trade.
Re: The Greeks: Can they change their culture? « Reply #14 on Aug 12, 2011, 7:40pm »
Ya know, I'm really pissed off that the right-wing nuts on this forum would attack the fraternity system. Only thing I can figure is this forum has a bunch of losers who went to rush parties and were denied the prestige of being invited to this or that frat. I understand that frat rats are a bunch of drunks whose sole purposes in life are to get drunk and screw sorority sisters but getting pissed off is hardly the way to respond. I mean really - college is supposed to be about partying, getting drunk and giving 18 year old girls drugs that will allow them to be raped.
Ya know, I'm really pissed off ...... Only thing I can figure is this forum has a bunch of losers who went to rush parties and were denied the prestige of being invited to this or that frat. I understand that frat rats are a bunch of drunks whose sole purposes in life are to get drunk and screw sorority sisters but getting pissed off is hardly the way to respond. I mean really - college is supposed to be about partying, getting drunk and giving 18 year old girls drugs that will allow them to be raped.
=Bob
Bob, your total geekiness is really starting to show.
Regain your composure and try to rewrite the sentences above. Remember, you can feign behavior that is close to normal so that people do not think that you are a geek mutant.
Remember the Geek Motto, "Better to be Geek than dead, but less Geek is always better."
"America loves a winner and will not tolerate a loser" - George Patton
Joined: Jul 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 5,181 Location: Fallbrook, CA
Re: The Greeks: Can they change their culture? « Reply #17 on Aug 16, 2011, 11:48pm »
The issue here, which Bob apparently revels in misunderstanding, is the extent to which a country can adopt new values when the old ones are self-evidently not working.
Prime Minister George Papandreou said to me, “What is most frustrating is the resistance in the system. How do you produce a change in culture?”
Clearly, having other countries pour money into Greece has not helped the Greeks. Only Greeks can help the Greeks, but to do so they will have to realize that lots of their old assumptions regarding what they can reasonably expect from their government have been foolish from the start.
Anyone who has studied the years 1945 to 1965 in Germany and Japan realizes that the economic miracles that occurred in those countries happened because (among other things) the citizens of those countries were very clear about one important thing; their governments, their economies, were in no position to hand them much of anything. Those folks knew they had to work hard and get along with little because there was no choice. We have all probably seen or know of recent immigrants to the U.S. who arrived with little (often without a knowledge of English) yet prospered because they were willing to work hard. They also did not sit around waiting for the government to give them anything.
Are we like Greece? Well, we are not quite where they are in terms of going broke. It's not too late to put our fiscal house in order. I'll rephrase that; it's not too late to put our fiscal house in order without the wrenching societal pain that the Greeks are facing. We will be fine provided that the American people face the facts. The key fact is that our government has promised too much to too many. Our current spending levels cannot be sustained. Neither redistributionist policies nor social justice legislation can make that fact go away.
But the hour is late. In a sense we are like the Greeks. We are just not quite as far down the road as they are.
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